lifting a thing

[vwthingrcer]

im looking to lift my thing with out using the lift kit. any ways I can lift it? coilovers?
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1973 vw thing 1600cc engine ONce agian is a live
1971 super beatle for sell
1964 bug type 4 getting ready to race

[suntour]

Do you have any idea what is involved with using coil-over springs? (well besides a hell of a lot of money)
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Order of the Voodoo Spoon

[Ferretkona]

Why do you want to lift it? For larger tires? Clearance?

If you wish larger tires there are new fenders with clearance for them. If you go too much bigger you will need a bigger motor. Some people have used body spacers to get more clearance but this only gives tire room.
There are raised spindles and adjustable beams. Maybe a early rearend with boxes.

You will get more informed answers here with full questions. State your current motor size and tire set up, what kind of tranny you have. Tell us why you want to raise it.

[Towel Rail]

Raising it via the torsion bars is your best bet, but that assumes you know how to do that.

[Captain Spalding]

Mighty small thinking, TR. I mean, if you're going to bolt in a more powerful motor, it'd better be a type 4, right? And while you're at it, make it a turbocharged type 4.

And re-indexing the springs will give you what - maybe 3 inches of lift in front? Why bother?! Six inches of lift sounds like a good place to start.

Think big, BE BIG.

[Thingggg]

[vwthingrcer]

i know how to raise the torsion. but how do you raise the front
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1973 vw thing 1600cc engine ONce agian is a live
1971 super beatle for sell
1964 bug type 4 getting ready to race

[Thingggg]

The front end suspension is torsion bars you can buy adjusters, they can be turned to give lift and add stiffness. Or you can just turn them and not have them adjustable.

The book below will tell you how to do all this it is a great book and shows other options:
Baja Bugs & Buggies By Jeff Hibbard. Includes engine & transaxle mods, roll bars/cages, skid plates, tires, wheels, brakes, lights, driving and safety tips, breakdown solutions, and more!

[suntour]

Lifting a Thing is such a vague term that it’s hard to give you any answers. To one person it’s a 3” body lift, to another it’s a cut and turned front end and re-index the rear torsion bars. (See the off-road forum sticky on this subject) any then there is the mid to long travel suspension with a combination of body modifications to fit the tires.

If you’re serious about the whole coil-over thing you need to make a serious commitment of time, money and fabrication skill to make it happen. Those mid to long travel off-road machines start around 30k and only go up. Just the rear shocks and springs start around $1800. This is not something to half-ass, you’ll just end up trashing a perfectly good Thing or worst case killing yourself when the suspension fails.

At this point wouldn’t you just be better off with a Jeep or something?
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Order of the Voodoo Spoon

[racer_dude]

[suntour]

For the weight of a Thing you need to run at least a 2.5 shock, a 2.0 is going to have a hard time dealing with the weight. The cheapest 2.5 with reservoir (Fox or King) with 14” travel is around $500 a piece add another $200+ for a dual spring setup per shock for the rear end. Add to this limit straps, brake lines, mounts and misc. parts and expect to pay $1800.

This doesn’t include new rear trailing arms (3x3), or converting to duel pivot arms. If you stick with traditional trailing arms you should remove the pivot point and re-weld it to the proper angle so you don’t have a case of killer camber. Your also going to want to change out the CV’s to 930’s to handle the abuse and angle. That leads to new snub axles and flanges for the transmission. You can stick with drum brakes or go with disk brake (take your pick). Your also going to need new axles.

This leads to a new transmission and engine to turn the larger wheels (yes a 1600 will work but don’t expect much performance.)

At this point you might as well switch to a King and Link from end with 2 ¼” x 1” arms and combo spindles (torsion or coil-over, take you pick) That means a tubed front end, possibly rack and pinion and relocating your gas tank.

I have not even touched on the rollcage or tube chassis, suspension seats, engine mount modifications, etc.

What I am getting at is that there are a lot of extra do-dads that really add up that are often over looked. Believe me I am looking into doing this exact same thing with my Thing.

I was down at the Baja Shop just the other day to get some quotes and they were the cheapest so far.

Chromoly Chassis $3800 (+or- 10% depending on material cost at time of purchase)
Front shock tower mounts $425
Rear shock mounts $425
Chromoly duel pivot (only 3x3) with heim joints $1400
Mounting body to chassis $500

Total $6550. for a coil-over suspension.

This doesn’t include anything else, I would need tires and rims, all four shocks and springs, cable shifter setup, new pedal cluster, brakes, new steering column (Stock will no longer work with the chassis), brake lines, limit straps, front arms (K&L) combo spindles, bearings, etc, etc, etc… just to get a rolling chassis.

So far I budgeted around $45,000 for this car with all the little things (gaskets, seats, electrical, blah blah.)

Now I have to ask myself, is it worth it? Will I realistically use my Thing (or want to after spending this much) to its full potential? Would I be better off getting a Baja or Manxster? I also plan to drive this around as a part-time daily driver. Will it be streetable? Or just suck on the pavement?

Frankly I don’t care what the hell you do with your Thing, lift it, drop it, throw it off a cliff for all I care but look at the big picture before you jump in half cocked.

P.S. I have had horrible experiences with Race Runner shocks when we were building the Rhino RTV. One major headache after the other… Their air suspension of the other hand was really cool and works well.
_________________
Order of the Voodoo Spoon

[racer_dude]

whoa... why will you be running 14"? i plan on leaving mine stock for the most part and would be looking at 8-10" coils and a 2.0 will be plenty fine, along with single rate..

a 14" 2.5 means you will be cycling over 12" of travel which means you plan on off-road driving, and doing it VERY hard. im lucky to cycle 10" out of the back of my 5/1600 and 2 2.0 fox's handle the job quite nicely without fade in a race application

i plan on getting +1" arms out back, if i have to make them, i have to make them, i just want the wheel to be centered in the wheel well, and i would like coils just to get the adjustability, i plan on getting 8-10" out of the back, which will be plenty fine for off-road "play", which done properly would only take a 6-8" coil, i dont plan on trying to pre-run all that much if any so a 2.0 will dissapate heat just fine and not fade for my application.. i dont plan on chopping the body up, so i will try, key word try, to make it all hidden.

i dont know what to do up front yet, but i do plan on going rack and pinion along with coils, i would like to use maybe +1 arms so i might have to fabricate a new beam and mount. but i will still try to maintain stock look. We cycle 9" of travel in the the front of the race car with a single smoothie 2.0 with zero fade, so once again a 2.0 will be the coice on the coil.

i do hear that there are a million things that i am overlooking at this point, but my thing the way i want it is still over 3 years from the making.

a coil setup is expensive, but you dont need to go full bore pre-runner thing like you are asking baja shop to do for you.

i have a friend that is trying to sell a complete chassis that is painted and has test miles on it now for under what your budget you said for your thing was...

[suntour]

Just for the sake of clarity my break down of what is involved in a coil-over was for vwthingrcer. I was trying to reiterate to him that a coil-over lift (if you can really call it a “lift”) isn’t a simple bolt on and go operation.

If you have read pervious posts from vwthingrcer you’ll notice he is a bit of a grandiose dreamer (nothing wrong with that, I find myself doing it to) but I am a bit dubious about his ability to make these plans a reality. I am just trying to inject a bit of reality into his grand scheme before his gets involved with something that may or may not be over his head. I have never met the man and have no idea what his fabrication, scrounging, bartering, and or resourcefulness skills are or his financial statue are in regards to these projects he comes up with. So I just play the part of the devils advocate.

Anyway, In regards to what your trying to achieve with your Thing it makes 100% sense. For a light duty car that you just want to go and have fun with your plans sound great. I wish I knew what to tell you about your front end. The ball joint setup is kind of a plague for off-roading. No one offers any kind of improvements that are worth a damn so your stuck with swapping frame heads or going with a tube setup to support a K&L. It’s just a PITA for us.

I still think that a 2.0 shock is a bit small for the weight of a Thing but that’s just my opinion. Just out of curiosity, how much does your Baja weigh? I am predicting my Thing is going to run around 2200-2500lbs. with everything bolted on.

I should also mention my predicted budget is heavily influence by a short time frame (trying to get the hell out of Dodge in the very near future) extensive body work and paint (my car is trashed) and a damn expensive engine and transmission. Those type IV engines are bloody expensive. A Subaru engine is looking better and better everyday. More Hp for a lot less money, you just have to find a home for the radiator.

On second thought maybe I should just get a Jeep and call it a day…
_________________
Order of the Voodoo Spoon

[Captain Spalding]

[kevin11]

[racer_dude]

all i have to say is hmmmmmm.....


and a 2.0 is plenty enough shock for playing, yes your right with a 2.5 would be better for more serious play, but the shock does not carry the car, that is what the coil is for, and they make heavier rate springs for that.

a 2.0 that is over sprung for the car will work less than a 2.5 that is dual rate and undersprung. the size of the shock most importantly for getting rid of heat, the bigger the shock the better it dissapates, and more oil volume it holds which over time equals fade protection.

as far as weight on my race car i couldnt even give you a guess, but i do know my thing gets going A LOT quicker. race car has a built motor with 12.5-1 compression, built tranny with closer ratio gears, and 33" rears. the thing has a stock 1600, stock tranny and 27" rears (bfg all terrains woot woot ) and hits 65 mph in 3rd gear in a hurry.. ok maybe i was kidding myself, but it does get going out of the hole a lot quicker, and stops better to. so i dont know if that helped you at all, but i think my racecar might weigh a bit more than my stock thingster

[vwthingrcer]

well my dad said he would pay for all the suspention work on it but i think i might have changed what im doing i want to make it a show type car itis pretty much there jsut do the supention and paint and interior maybe a motor and some nice rims
_________________
1973 vw thing 1600cc engine ONce agian is a live
1971 super beatle for sell
1964 bug type 4 getting ready to race

[Captain Spalding]

[suntour]

[Thingggg]