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jjjjack
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Location: Gainesville, FL
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brettsvw
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Joined: November 22, 2007
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Location: Florida
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jjjjack
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Joined: August 08, 2005
Posts: 1013
Location: Gainesville, FL
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 Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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So I called RIMCO and they say they can do it. Kind of hate the thought of shipping it cross country...but if they're the best for this sort of thing, it's probably worth it.
...decisions, decisions...
According to the Workshop Manual (M-9 6b/c) when the dealer came across bastard motors they'd swap the crankcase, crankshaft, and flywheel. So if I decide to go this route, they'd re-machine the existing crankcase, install a regular 40hp crankshaft/bearings (I'd keep my original bastard crank) and a non-bastard flywheel (I'd keep my original flywheel). Is that right? Is that the extent of the mods? Nothing else needs to change? I could use either bastard or non-bastard 40hp heads, cans, etc? A drivable bastard that is correct in every way except those three things is appealing.
Thanks for everyone's opinions on this...my mind is still open...
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Jack Stenner
1959 Mango Westfalia SO-23
1953 Porsche 356 Coupe
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Eric&Barb
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Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24764
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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You could also have the cam bearing bores opened up so later replaceable cam bearings can be installed.
40 HP crank with counterweights welded on will make it run a lot smoother, or even go with a 1500/1600 69mm throw CW crank. The latter would require connecting rods thinned down a little. Have thought about going that way and installing 40 HP Judson supercharger to get it to breath enough with the cc increase.
Found out a friend of ours has a friend in Corvina. So have now acquired the heads, and since not in a rush for them, they will shipped up the coast by available VW bus trips when possible. Just goes to show you that it is great to have friends in low places 
Been wondering if a part could be lathed up to fit the huge bastard flywheel seal bore in the case, with an ID to fit in the later 40 HP/1300/1500/1600 smaller OD FW seal....
Would that work?
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Redlocker
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Joined: January 25, 2010
Posts: 107
Location: I'm in southwestern PA, USA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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Also in the Bentley manual, pages M-12 1,2,& 3 (especially 3), it explains how a machine shop can add an aperture into the number two bearing web (like the later 40 horse cases) to help with internal case pressure and thus oil control. Actually that whole section seems dedicated to "correcting" the bastard case without replacing it.
I also assume that they (RIMCO) could cut the thrust surface onto the bastard crank at number one bearing since they can "re-cut" it onto existing crankshafts.
And... if they can do that, why couldn't they cut the thrust face onto the flywheel as well? I believe they do it that to the standard 40 horse flywheels when needed.
Lastly, I doubt shipping would be that outrageous. I paid $160 to ship a complete (less carb, distributor, and fuel pump) Bastard engine strapped to a hardwood pallet, weighing 220 lbs. from the very southern tip of FL to South Western PA. A block, crank, and flywheel would obviously weigh less. I used Uship to find a motor carrier that I liked. It is like Ebay in reverse, freight haulers bid to see who can ship it the cheapest. You chose the lowest priced one or whoever you want.
Good Luck. You know I'm watching because my Bastard Engine will most likely follow the same path your will take.
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Search my other want ads. A wise man once said, "Do unto others, as you would have done unto you". We should all try that.
71 Super Beetle (stolen)
71 Squareback (rusted, junked)
71 Squareback (factory-dealer A/C, sold)
68 Bus, sold
68 Beetle (baja'd, sold)
78 "Golf" (total burn)
81 Scirocco S (sold, bought back, sold again)
81 Scirocco S (sold)
86 Scirocco (sold)
83 GTI (DSP auto-crossed, sold)
84 GTI (sold)
2000 New Beetle
'60 Microbus Std. / Mango (project in progress) |
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brettsvw
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Joined: November 22, 2007
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Location: Florida
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jjjjack
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2005
Posts: 1013
Location: Gainesville, FL
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Eric&Barb wrote: |
You could also have the cam bearing bores opened up so later replaceable cam bearings can be installed.
40 HP crank with counterweights welded on will make it run a lot smoother, or even go with a 1500/1600 69mm throw CW crank. The latter would require connecting rods thinned down a little. Have thought about going that way and installing 40 HP Judson supercharger to get it to breath enough with the cc increase.
Found out a friend of ours has a friend in Corvina. So have now acquired the heads, and since not in a rush for them, they will shipped up the coast by available VW bus trips when possible. Just goes to show you that it is great to have friends in low places |
Yeah, I was really surprised to notice no bearings on the cam! Never realized that.
| Eric&Barb wrote: |
Been wondering if a part could be lathed up to fit the huge bastard flywheel seal bore in the case, with an ID to fit in the later 40 HP/1300/1500/1600 smaller OD FW seal....
Would that work? |
I bet so. Fortunately I bought one of Redlocker’s seals, so I should be set in that regard.
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Jack Stenner
1959 Mango Westfalia SO-23
1953 Porsche 356 Coupe
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jjjjack
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Joined: August 08, 2005
Posts: 1013
Location: Gainesville, FL
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Redlocker wrote: |
| Also in the Bentley manual, pages M-12 1,2,& 3 (especially 3), it explains how a machine shop can add an aperture into the number two bearing web (like the later 40 horse cases) to help with internal case pressure and thus oil control. Actually that whole section seems dedicated to "correcting" the bastard case without replacing it. |
Wow, that “Special Hints” section is crazy. But yeah, it's good to see that they were suggesting fixes/improvements.
| Redlocker wrote: |
I also assume that they (RIMCO) could cut the thrust surface onto the bastard crank at number one bearing since they can "re-cut" it onto existing crankshafts.
And... if they can do that, why couldn't they cut the thrust face onto the flywheel as well? I believe they do it that to the standard 40 horse flywheels when needed. |
Ah, that makes sense. I think that would be better.
| Redlocker wrote: |
Lastly, I doubt shipping would be that outrageous. I paid $160 to ship a complete (less carb, distributor, and fuel pump) Bastard engine strapped to a hardwood pallet, weighing 220 lbs. from the very southern tip of FL to South Western PA. A block, crank, and flywheel would obviously weigh less. I used Uship to find a motor carrier that I liked. It is like Ebay in reverse, freight haulers bid to see who can ship it the cheapest. You chose the lowest priced one or whoever you want.
Good Luck. You know I'm watching because my Bastard Engine will most likely follow the same path your will take. |
Good to know. I know I’ve been waffling, but I think as long as the motor looks original on the outside and can be made to last another 55 years I’ll be happy. I just really want to be able to say it’s running the original engine...
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Jack Stenner
1959 Mango Westfalia SO-23
1953 Porsche 356 Coupe
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Redlocker
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Joined: January 25, 2010
Posts: 107
Location: I'm in southwestern PA, USA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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| brettsvw wrote: |
| Was the bastard crank a problem because of the thrust being at #2 or just bad forges? |
I was under the impression that the failures were due to the thrust bearing being at the #2 position. It seemed that once they realized the problem, they machined the remaining cranks that were already in the supply line designed for #2 thrust to have thrust at the #1 position (Bentley manual pg. M-9 6c, section 2, a,b ,and c). Once these were used up, all of the following cranks were back to the #1 position.
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Search my other want ads. A wise man once said, "Do unto others, as you would have done unto you". We should all try that.
71 Super Beetle (stolen)
71 Squareback (rusted, junked)
71 Squareback (factory-dealer A/C, sold)
68 Bus, sold
68 Beetle (baja'd, sold)
78 "Golf" (total burn)
81 Scirocco S (sold, bought back, sold again)
81 Scirocco S (sold)
86 Scirocco (sold)
83 GTI (DSP auto-crossed, sold)
84 GTI (sold)
2000 New Beetle
'60 Microbus Std. / Mango (project in progress) |
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jjjjack
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Joined: August 08, 2005
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Location: Gainesville, FL
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| Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 4:31 am Post subject: |
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So I decided to gather up what I have and dry fit things. I quickly realized that the fitment between my third-generation bastard head and the NOS bastard pistons/cylinders I have was loose. I started measuring everything and my third-gen head has been machined for 90mm cylinders. Of course, my bastard cylinders are 86mm, so that won’t work.
Third gen with 90mm machine work (PN 113 101 371A (45) - Dec 16, 1960):
At that point I realized what I had with my original engine. On the 1/2 side I have original bastard cylinders (they are identical to my NOS cylinders) with what I’m thinking is a dealer replacement, 1962 bastard head (PN 113 101 371 (36) - May 9, 1962).
On the 3/4 side, my engine had regular, non-bastard 40hp 90mm cylinders (with the gas relief groove) with a regular 40hp head (PN 113 101 371C (45) - August 19, 1964).
I was fortunate to find a matching NOS PN 113 101 371 (35) - Jan 6, 1962 bastard head, so now I’m all set with bastard from top to bottom. Does that make sense that these ’62 371 heads are what dealers stocked for service work on the bastards that came in for repair? They are clearly bastard only since they are 86mm at the cylinders.
Set of NOS bastard pistons/cans + 1962 bastard heads:
I think at this point, the only thing more “correct” would be if I could find a pair of first-gen bastard heads, but this should be just fine until then 
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Jack Stenner
1959 Mango Westfalia SO-23
1953 Porsche 356 Coupe
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BarryL 
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Location: Casa de Oro, California
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| Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 10:47 am Post subject: |
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| jjjjack wrote: |
On the 1/2 side I have...(they are identical to my NOS cylinders...my bastard cylinders are 86mm).
On the 3/4 side, my engine had regular, non-bastard 40hp 90mm |
Unreal score on all the NOS parts.
Are you saying your engine had different displacements on the right vs left sides? |
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jjjjack
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Location: Gainesville, FL
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| Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:14 am Post subject: |
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| BarryL wrote: |
| jjjjack wrote: |
On the 1/2 side I have...(they are identical to my NOS cylinders...my bastard cylinders are 86mm).
On the 3/4 side, my engine had regular, non-bastard 40hp 90mm |
Unreal score on all the NOS parts.
Are you saying your engine had different displacements on the right vs left sides? |
Yes, pretty lucky!
The ID of the cylinders is pretty close to even. The ~4mm difference is in the thickness of the cylinder walls where they mate to the head. So the displacement should be the same.
I thought the same thing when I first realized it, LOL!
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Jack Stenner
1959 Mango Westfalia SO-23
1953 Porsche 356 Coupe
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grailoc
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Joined: March 25, 2004
Posts: 1441
Location: FRANCE and now QUEBEC city
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grailoc
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Location: FRANCE and now QUEBEC city
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kevnmarcie
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Joined: December 11, 2006
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Location: Poulsbo, WA
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| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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| It's my understanding that you have to modify the air cleaner to get the Judson to fit in the bus engine compartment. Also, a lot of the pieces on your engine look to be for 1961. You can check the build date of your bus against Progressive refinements to see exactly how your engine would have been equipped. If the engine turns out half as well as your interior, it should be spectacular! |
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grailoc
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Redlocker
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Joined: January 25, 2010
Posts: 107
Location: I'm in southwestern PA, USA
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| Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 9:01 pm Post subject: Bastard Fuel Pump Flange / Pushrod |
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Okay Bastard experts, here is hopefully a simple question for all of you.
What is the correct length / style fuel pump pushrod and fuel pump flange for a 1st generation Bastard bus engine?
I'm assuming it is either the 25/36 horse version or the 40 horse version... or is there a special Bastard version?
It looks like (according to the OACDP site) that is the same as a 40 horse.
Can anyone help?
Thanks.
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Search my other want ads. A wise man once said, "Do unto others, as you would have done unto you". We should all try that.
71 Super Beetle (stolen)
71 Squareback (rusted, junked)
71 Squareback (factory-dealer A/C, sold)
68 Bus, sold
68 Beetle (baja'd, sold)
78 "Golf" (total burn)
81 Scirocco S (sold, bought back, sold again)
81 Scirocco S (sold)
86 Scirocco (sold)
83 GTI (DSP auto-crossed, sold)
84 GTI (sold)
2000 New Beetle
'60 Microbus Std. / Mango (project in progress) |
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jjjjack
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Posts: 1013
Location: Gainesville, FL
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| Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 7:49 am Post subject: |
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This is what was in mine. The rod is 108 mm in length:
The fuel pump spacer is busted up with the lower part still in the engine, currently, but here it is. It's right at 13 mm tall at the flange:
HTH,
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Jack Stenner
1959 Mango Westfalia SO-23
1953 Porsche 356 Coupe
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Stocknazi
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| Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 8:27 am Post subject: |
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I have had luck removing the broken flange piece by heating up a bolt and screwing it into the broken piece. it will melt into it an give you something to pull it out.
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jjjjack
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