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RedPanel59
Samba Member
Joined: March 30, 2015
Posts: 4
Location: Switzerland
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 Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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Hi! My name is Markus, I live in Switzerland. I all ready did a lot of reading in this very helpful forum. I do have a Model 60 Panel produced in August 59. Sadly the original engine was missing when I bought it. But a couple of days ago I bought a engine with a number near the original one.
I'm writing because I hope you could tell me more about my new engine. Here are some pics...
VJR 4 BR 25
You will find more pics in my gallery.
Does someone know why the oil dipstick is to long? I compared it with one of my 58 engines and they have the same length. 
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BulliBill
Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2004
Posts: 4573
Location: St Charles, MO
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| Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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Cool! Looks to be in decent condition! I have one that is about 4,000 motor numbers earlier than your. Your intake manifold looks odd to me, the carb and governor look to be later models, not sure what's up with your extra long? oil dipstick.
Welcome to the "Bastard Club"!
Bill
_________________
I'm looking for these license plate frames for my fleet:
Coeur D'Alene - Lake Shore Volkswagen
Mission VW - San Fernando
Thornton VW - Stockton
Thanks for any help! |
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Redlocker
Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2010
Posts: 107
Location: I'm in southwestern PA, USA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:50 pm Post subject: RedPanel59 Dip Stick Issue |
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| RedPanel59 wrote: |
Does someone know why the oil dipstick is to long? I compared it with one of my 58 engines and they have the same length. |
For what it is worth, using a micrometer accurate to +/- 0.02 mm, I checked how far my dipstick tube sticks up out of my 1st generation Bastard engine block. It sticks up 36.68 mm.
I also laid my dipstick down on top of my micrometer. From the bottom of the "bell" (the part that seals on top of the dipstick tube) to the end of the dip stick is 156.37 mm.
I checked the length of the dip stick on another fresh air 40 horse engine I have, it was 156. 38 mm.
Hopefully this can help you sort out your dip stick issue.
Good Luck
_________________
Search my other want ads. A wise man once said, "Do unto others, as you would have done unto you". We should all try that.
71 Super Beetle (stolen)
71 Squareback (rusted, junked)
71 Squareback (factory-dealer A/C, sold)
68 Bus, sold
68 Beetle (baja'd, sold)
78 "Golf" (total burn)
81 Scirocco S (sold, bought back, sold again)
81 Scirocco S (sold)
86 Scirocco (sold)
83 GTI (DSP auto-crossed, sold)
84 GTI (sold)
2000 New Beetle
'60 Microbus Std. / Mango (project in progress) |
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RedPanel59
Samba Member
Joined: March 30, 2015
Posts: 4
Location: Switzerland
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| Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 11:55 am Post subject: bastard oil dipstick & generation |
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Thanks for your replay.
I checked my oil dipstick issue today.
| Redlocker wrote: |
| I checked how far my dipstick tube sticks up out of my 1st generation Bastard engine block. It sticks up 36.68 mm. |
It's the same for mine.
| Redlocker wrote: |
| I also laid my dipstick down on top of my micrometer. From the bottom of the "bell" (the part that seals on top of the dipstick tube) to the end of the dip stick is 156.37 mm. |
I checked one of a "D" engine it has the same length as yours. I think it's a dipstick form a earlier engine with a "non screwed generator stand".
Does someone recognize if the heads and engine block are of 1. generation bastard or not? |
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Redlocker
Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2010
Posts: 107
Location: I'm in southwestern PA, USA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 1:52 pm Post subject: Re: bastard oil dipstick & generation |
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| Does someone recognize if the heads and engine block are of 1. generation bastard or not? |
Based on one of your pictures, it is definitely 1st generation heads.
| Quote: |
| Does someone recognize if the heads and engine block are of 1. generation bastard or not? |
It looks like your serial number starts with a 3 472 _ _ _. That is a 1st generation.
According to the Bentley manual, page M-9, 6a:
1st generation from engine serial number 3 400 000 - 3 491 699
2nd generation from 3 491 700 - 3 520 332
3rd generation from 3 520 333 - (the true 40 horse engine, it does not give a last number) [/quote]
_________________
Search my other want ads. A wise man once said, "Do unto others, as you would have done unto you". We should all try that.
71 Super Beetle (stolen)
71 Squareback (rusted, junked)
71 Squareback (factory-dealer A/C, sold)
68 Bus, sold
68 Beetle (baja'd, sold)
78 "Golf" (total burn)
81 Scirocco S (sold, bought back, sold again)
81 Scirocco S (sold)
86 Scirocco (sold)
83 GTI (DSP auto-crossed, sold)
84 GTI (sold)
2000 New Beetle
'60 Microbus Std. / Mango (project in progress) |
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Redlocker
Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2010
Posts: 107
Location: I'm in southwestern PA, USA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 6:51 pm Post subject: Another type of "Bastard" air filter ? |
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VW part # 261 129 611 A (a type II "Bastard" air filter?)
Well a google search for that number led me back to the samba. A discussion topic called "air filter ID?". At the end of the post, it seemed that the unknown air filter was:
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"according to dropgates.com, 261 129 611 A is for mid56=>april1959:
Changed wingnut in favor of a long bolt attached to bottom piece. bowl now screws into upper arm.
So it is the latest 36hp air cleaner. I bought one several months ago for $75." |
In this very same forum that you are reading, on page 5, Everett Barnes IDs a Bastard air filter as, "a clamp on" (he also supplied a picture showing such).
On the Obsolete Aircooled Documentation Project's website the part number is not listed in either the '50 - '54 or '58 - '67 Type II sections.
Both the '59 and '60 Owners manuals for these buses show the "slotted clamp on type" of air filter as well.
Our bus was owned by the original owner for 40+ years. The second owner planned on restoring it to original except for a 1600cc 12 volt conversion. We are the third owners. It has not been "molested" in its previous life.
Here is the problem, according to the VW Birth Certificate for our bus which was produced December 7, 1959, and delivered December 10, 1959; our original engine serial number was # 3 473 280 (a 1st generation Bastard) which had the angled outlet muffler, thrust on #2, huge rear main crankshaft seal... That engine block was sold by the previous owner, but he kept all of the original "accessories" (including the air filter).
Notice the 11/'59 date code on the air filter, as well as the previously mentioned part number. The date code does coincide with the production date range of the engine and "bus".
So, am I correct in assuming that this is yet another variation on the "Bastard" engines?
[/img][/s]
_________________
Search my other want ads. A wise man once said, "Do unto others, as you would have done unto you". We should all try that.
71 Super Beetle (stolen)
71 Squareback (rusted, junked)
71 Squareback (factory-dealer A/C, sold)
68 Bus, sold
68 Beetle (baja'd, sold)
78 "Golf" (total burn)
81 Scirocco S (sold, bought back, sold again)
81 Scirocco S (sold)
86 Scirocco (sold)
83 GTI (DSP auto-crossed, sold)
84 GTI (sold)
2000 New Beetle
'60 Microbus Std. / Mango (project in progress) |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24764
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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Definitely a possibility, not the first time VW had two parts suppliers making same part, but different versions at same time. Would not be too surprised if the new part was not being produced fast enough, so the older version was put into the production line.
Could also be that in the next bay was a ghia getting a tune up, and the air cleaners were switched.
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In Stereo, Where Available! |
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BulliBill
Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2004
Posts: 4573
Location: St Charles, MO
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 5:50 am Post subject: Re: Another type of "Bastard" air filter ? |
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| Redlocker wrote: |
VW part # 261 129 611 A (a type II "Bastard" air filter?)
Well a google search for that number led me back to the samba. A discussion topic called "air filter ID?". At the end of the post, it seemed that the unknown air filter was:
| Quote: |
"according to dropgates.com, 261 129 611 A is for mid56=>april1959:
Changed wingnut in favor of a long bolt attached to bottom piece. bowl now screws into upper arm.
So it is the latest 36hp air cleaner. I bought one several months ago for $75." |
In this very same forum that you are reading, on page 5, Everett Barnes IDs a Bastard air filter as, "a clamp on" (he also supplied a picture showing such).
On the Obsolete Aircooled Documentation Project's website the part number is not listed in either the '50 - '54 or '58 - '67 Type II sections.
Both the '59 and '60 Owners manuals for these buses show the "slotted clamp on type" of air filter as well.
Our bus was owned by the original owner for 40+ years. The second owner planned on restoring it to original except for a 1600cc 12 volt conversion. We are the third owners. It has not been "molested" in its previous life.
Here is the problem, according to the VW Birth Certificate for our bus which was produced December 7, 1959, and delivered December 10, 1959; our original engine serial number was # 3 473 280 (a 1st generation Bastard) which had the angled outlet muffler, thrust on #2, huge rear main crankshaft seal... That engine block was sold by the previous owner, but he kept all of the original "accessories" (including the air filter).
Notice the 11/'59 date code on the air filter, as well as the previously mentioned part number. The date code does coincide with the production date range of the engine and "bus".
So, am I correct in assuming that this is yet another variation on the "Bastard" engines?
[/img]
[/s] |
That air cleaner might also have been produced in that month to supply VW dealerships with replacement parts for the earlier Buses/Ghias?
Bill
_________________
I'm looking for these license plate frames for my fleet:
Coeur D'Alene - Lake Shore Volkswagen
Mission VW - San Fernando
Thornton VW - Stockton
Thanks for any help! |
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crofty
Judas of the North
Joined: August 09, 2000
Posts: 19672
Location: Land of Whine and Phonies
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:59 am Post subject: |
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The wear on the snorkel looks far less than that of the top of the air cleaner
_________________
Your Vanagon sucks, Stop waving at me.
| HamburgerBrad wrote: |
I slept on crofty's tent once. I passed out drunk from two bottles of Everett's brother's wine. |
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Redlocker
Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2010
Posts: 107
Location: I'm in southwestern PA, USA
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| Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 8:40 am Post subject: |
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| crofty wrote: |
| The wear on the snorkel looks far less than that of the top of the air cleaner |
That is partly my fault. It appeared to be in a reasonably nice condition, but coated with that dirt/oil mix that seems to coat things wherever there is an oil leak or spill. To clean it, I used my favorite gun cleaner/solvent/protectant "G96 3-in-1". Unfortunately, while it is great on any ferrous metal (it devours copper, tin, "brass", plastic, carbon deposits, etc...) as a cleaner, de-ruster, and protector; it also strips paint or makes it wipe off if caught before it all gets stripped. Once I realized what was happening, I only left it on the snorkel a few seconds. The results are clearly visible as you have noticed.
_________________
Search my other want ads. A wise man once said, "Do unto others, as you would have done unto you". We should all try that.
71 Super Beetle (stolen)
71 Squareback (rusted, junked)
71 Squareback (factory-dealer A/C, sold)
68 Bus, sold
68 Beetle (baja'd, sold)
78 "Golf" (total burn)
81 Scirocco S (sold, bought back, sold again)
81 Scirocco S (sold)
86 Scirocco (sold)
83 GTI (DSP auto-crossed, sold)
84 GTI (sold)
2000 New Beetle
'60 Microbus Std. / Mango (project in progress) |
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BulliBill
Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2004
Posts: 4573
Location: St Charles, MO
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| Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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Perhaps I've missed it already in one of these "Bastard" motor threads, but has anyone ever turned up any VW dealership, regional or worldwide VW literature, workshop or technical bulletins, etc., on the "Bastard" motor recall, recall procedures, etc. You know, smoking gun stuff. Instructions to dealerships on how to notify owners, how to handle customers when they came in with a broken "Bastard", how to order replacement parts or whole rebuilt motors, etc., etc., etc... It'd be fun to check out official stuff on the "Bastard" calamity from VW's point of view at the time!
Oh yeah, I've turned up two cream colored main oil seals (at the flywheel) that have a 105mm outer diameter. Are true "Bastard" seals that big or are they 100mm O.D. diameter or what?
Carry on!
Bill Bowman
_________________
I'm looking for these license plate frames for my fleet:
Coeur D'Alene - Lake Shore Volkswagen
Mission VW - San Fernando
Thornton VW - Stockton
Thanks for any help! |
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jjjjack
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2005
Posts: 1013
Location: Gainesville, FL
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| Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:18 am Post subject: |
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| BulliBill wrote: |
| Oh yeah, I've turned up two cream colored main oil seals (at the flywheel) that have a 105mm outer diameter. Are true "Bastard" seals that big or are they 100mm O.D. diameter or what? |
I have an NOS one and one of Ernie's. They are 100mm.
I would be cool to find some dealer docs on the recall!
_________________
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1959 Mango Westfalia SO-23
1953 Porsche 356 Coupe
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BarryL 
Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 14269
Location: Casa de Oro, California
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| Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 9:27 am Post subject: |
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| jjjjack wrote: |
| BulliBill wrote: |
| Oh yeah, I've turned up two cream colored main oil seals (at the flywheel) that have a 105mm outer diameter. Are true "Bastard" seals that big or are they 100mm O.D. diameter or what? |
I have an NOS one and one of Ernie's. They are 100mm.
I would be cool to find some dealer docs on the recall! |
And also the attempt to change the crank and thrust location before canning the Bastard. |
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jjjjack
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2005
Posts: 1013
Location: Gainesville, FL
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BulliBill
Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2004
Posts: 4573
Location: St Charles, MO
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| Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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Alright, while we are waiting for someone to post some awesome literature from the VWoA, VWAG and dealership perspective about the "Bastard issues and recall, etc., can anyone tell me off-hand what older VW engine used my huge 105mm O.D. main oil seal? I'm at a loss...
Bill
_________________
I'm looking for these license plate frames for my fleet:
Coeur D'Alene - Lake Shore Volkswagen
Mission VW - San Fernando
Thornton VW - Stockton
Thanks for any help! |
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glutamodo
The Android
Joined: July 13, 2004
Posts: 26324
Location: Douglas, WY
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| Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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| What kind of markings are on these seals? |
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BulliBill
Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2004
Posts: 4573
Location: St Charles, MO
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| Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 7:46 am Post subject: |
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| glutamodo wrote: |
| What kind of markings are on these seals? |
The outer coating is a creamy white material, and the markings are:
GOETZE (manufacturer - German)
827 S L D W 82 - 105 x 12 Si
Thanks for any "application" info. I doubt I have an engine here that might need them... we'll see.
Bill
_________________
I'm looking for these license plate frames for my fleet:
Coeur D'Alene - Lake Shore Volkswagen
Mission VW - San Fernando
Thornton VW - Stockton
Thanks for any help! |
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Jordan Grover
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2008
Posts: 12
Location: West Olympia, Washington
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| Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 11:25 pm Post subject: Reunited with my 1960 Mango Bastard |
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| Been in storage for the past 15 years at the parents house, march 9th production mango with a bastard40 serial number 505 304, all original 39K, complete with original window sticker, license plate frame, tool kit, owners maual and original german spare tire with no road wear, complete bus in every way...I'll post pictures soon |
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Redlocker
Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2010
Posts: 107
Location: I'm in southwestern PA, USA
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| Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 3:21 am Post subject: |
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Wow!
Waiting for the pictures. If it is as nice as it sounds to be complete, you should be able to nicely pad your retirement account. But I know I could never sell my parents or my early memories to fund retirement.
As an added bonus, that engine serial number indicates a 2nd generation "Bastard" (thrust back to #1 but still the 60mm bearings...) which should not self-destruct.
Let's see those pictures.
_________________
Search my other want ads. A wise man once said, "Do unto others, as you would have done unto you". We should all try that.
71 Super Beetle (stolen)
71 Squareback (rusted, junked)
71 Squareback (factory-dealer A/C, sold)
68 Bus, sold
68 Beetle (baja'd, sold)
78 "Golf" (total burn)
81 Scirocco S (sold, bought back, sold again)
81 Scirocco S (sold)
86 Scirocco (sold)
83 GTI (DSP auto-crossed, sold)
84 GTI (sold)
2000 New Beetle
'60 Microbus Std. / Mango (project in progress) |
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Jordan Grover
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2008
Posts: 12
Location: West Olympia, Washington
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| Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 2:00 pm Post subject: Reunited with my 1960 Mango Bastard |
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I've had this bus since I was 16, and have 3 more generations below me waiting for their chance LOL...And now for some pictures.
Thanks for looking... |
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