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Timing marks
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Beryl Green
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 2:43 pm    Post subject: Timing marks Reply with quote

Hi, I have 2 marks on my pulley one at 7.5 the other would be 10 BTDC. I have tried both and had poor acceration feeling it was too retarded. Last night I kept working it mm by mm till the performance improved. it ended up being set at around 6 degrees BTDC and goes much better. Why would this be the case? I used a static timing light, 61 bug 1200.
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jwp67
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What distributor are you using? Different distributors - different timing. Is your dwell correct?

http://www.oldvolkshome.com/ignition.htm
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Aussiebug
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 3:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Timing marks Reply with quote

Beryl Green wrote:
Hi, I have 2 marks on my pulley one at 7.5 the other would be 10 BTDC.

Only if they are very close together. There are at least 4 different pulley mark arrangements on bug engines. Some have only one notch which can be 10BTDC or 5ATDC!!!

Quote:
I have tried both and had poor acceration feeling it was too retarded. Last night I kept working it mm by mm till the performance improved. it ended up being set at around 6 degrees BTDC and goes much better. Why would this be the case? I used a static timing light, 61 bug 1200.


As noted above, it depends on your distributor. If you use a 009 (centrifugal - no vacuum), these vary a lot and should be set 30-32 degrees max advance at 3000+rpm and let the idle fall where it may - usually somewhere between 5 and 10BTDC.

If you have a vacuum distributor, it depends on which one you have - if it's designed for the 1200 engine then it should be set at 10BTDC but the 1300/1500/1600 engines used 7.5BTDC with their stock distributors. It's unlikely you would find a TDC distributor here in Australia, but it's just possible I guess (lots of them on the USA).

So, as asked above, WHAT distributor are you using?

And if you have a vacuum distributor, it will also depend on what carb you are using with what distributor - some carbs have a low vacuum signal and dont work well with the vacuum distributors.

So, what carb are you using too?
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Beryl Green
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, distributor is vacc advance only (has the short body) carb is PICT 28-1
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bluebus86
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

beware of setting the timing to get max power, if you search for max power you may d\find you have entered the danger zone for detonation.

I can tune any VW to get more power by advancing the timing, However eventually you have a hand grenade motor, lots of power, low life.

use care when selecting the advance
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djshutup
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since your pulley sounds like mine (only 2 notches real close) I am curious if you marked TDC on your pulley with one of the templates available for doing valve adjustments
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Beryl Green
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TDC was already marked in red when I got the car.
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panicman
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey beryl, I have a 1962 40hp in my '60. I am running a 30 pict 1, and the 4R5 'fatboy' distributor. New points and condenser, rebuilt the carb and fuel pump within the last month. Brand new coil, plugs and wires. While dinking around, I too found that by advancing the timing a bit I could get a better feeling of power. But the idle seemed off, and it seemed to labor at idle, and I swear I had flat spots in acceleration, and trouble starting.

I re-timed to 10 degrees, and the idle is great, starting is great, but the tiny little edge of power I felt is gone.

I want to run this 40hp for a while, so I am just playing it safe and keeping it at ten deg.
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Aussiebug
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beryl Green wrote:
Thanks, distributor is vacc advance only (has the short body) carb is PICT 28-1

Ok, with that combo, 10btdc is the right static timing.

Stay cool in Warburton, it's going to be hot there again today like here in Adelaide.
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Beryl Green
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No worries will give 10BTDC a go again. While we're on the subject the bloke up the road who's a mechanic says to use a strobe is the best way. Muir says static.
Few fires around today Aussiebug, stay safe too.
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tasb
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The big cap 40 horse and the 30 PICT carburetor are a mismatch.
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glutamodo Premium Member
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While I normally agree totally with tasb... I have to say, I never had a single issue when running a big-cap 40HP distributor with a 30PICT-1. '

The vacuum advance "plumbing" of the 30PICT-1 is identical to the 28PICT-1. It does vary from the 28PICT though. But I've run "fat boy" distributors on my big-bore 40HP engines for 20 years now, with a few different carbs. I've currently gone back to an old 28PICT (after I fixed the pulled out base studs) , but the Mexican 30PICT-1 I ran for several years ran quite well.

-Andy
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panicman
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems to be running fine, but what ought I watch for if the two weren't playing nice?
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tasb
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You would be looking for a spark advance that is not giving you the performance that you need/expect.

I am with Andy (glutamodo). I ran a 34 PICT 3 with a 113 905 205 T for many years. Not supposed to play well together but they did.

Lately I have had customers asking me what is "correct" rather than what will work.
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