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Fuel injection relief here!
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Tangerine
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 1:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! Reply with quote

KTPhil wrote:
Lacking a temp sensor, you could rig up a fixed resistor based on the desired resistance when warmed up.

Or perhaps something like a linear taper potentiometer. As it warmed up, you could adjust the resistance level accordingly, rather like a manual choke.
If the sensor has a range of say 1200 ohm cold to 20 ohm hot, a 2k unit would cover the range. I'd perhaps suggest putting a 20 ohm fixed resister in series, so that you could never go below that value. Perhaps not optimal, but cheap, available and easy.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 2:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! Reply with quote

Tangerine wrote:
KTPhil wrote:
Lacking a temp sensor, you could rig up a fixed resistor based on the desired resistance when warmed up.

Or perhaps something like a linear taper potentiometer. As it warmed up, you could adjust the resistance level accordingly, rather like a manual choke.
If the sensor has a range of say 1200 ohm cold to 20 ohm hot, a 2k unit would cover the range. I'd perhaps suggest putting a 20 ohm fixed resister in series, so that you could never go below that value. Perhaps not optimal, but cheap, available and easy.


Probably more trouble than it's worth as a temporary fix. But if you do, the hot value for the sensor is about 1K ohms or a little less, and about 5K-10K when cold.
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Tangerine
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:27 am    Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! Reply with quote

I recently picked up a FI system that has the extra 'cold' sensor and fuel valve. From what I understand, that system was pretty much an independent system from the electronic portion of the FI. Would there be any advantage/reason to attempt to retro-fit this to a '68? I live in Miss. so we don't get really cold temps down here.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:41 am    Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! Reply with quote

Tangerine wrote:
I recently picked up a FI system that has the extra 'cold' sensor and fuel valve. From what I understand, that system was pretty much an independent system from the electronic portion of the FI. Would there be any advantage/reason to attempt to retro-fit this to a '68? I live in Miss. so we don't get really cold temps down here.


Probably not. Depending on the year and with running changes, the temp it operates at is somewhere in the range from 15 to 32 F. Any warmer and it is inoperative.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 12:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! Reply with quote

I recently had an 'interesting' symptom on my '68 SqBk. Cranked up and idled fine, but when the throttle was opened, the engine would rev up a bit and then cut out, over and over, never over a certain RPM, as long as the throttle was held open.
The problem turned out to be, as I'm sure most of you have guessed, a shorted throttle position switch. Simple enough, but it had me going for a little while, for sure.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 9:19 am    Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! Reply with quote

Tram wrote:
Just noticed the genuine Bosch injectors have gone bat shit crazy on price... I've had good luck with the Beck- Arnley reman eqivalent - their P/N no. 155-0007. This looks to be the best price on the Bay of E right now:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Beck-Arnley-Fuel-Injector-...mp;vxp=mtr

Replace the lower seals with the Mercedes type- they're much more robust than the crappy aftermarket VW junk:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Lower-MBenz-280SE-280SEL...mp;vxp=mtr

NOTE: These are for 1776cc and up bigger engines running stock D-Jet.

Will the Mercedes seals work on a totally stock FI/heads? They look a good bit different from the original. Is there any special 'fitment' issue/installation procedure with these vs original?
On a different vein, I have a NOS FI wiring harness for a '71. Is this usable without modification on a '68?
Thanks.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! Reply with quote

Tangerine wrote:
Tram wrote:
Just noticed the genuine Bosch injectors have gone bat shit crazy on price... I've had good luck with the Beck- Arnley reman eqivalent - their P/N no. 155-0007. This looks to be the best price on the Bay of E right now:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Beck-Arnley-Fuel-Injector-...mp;vxp=mtr

Replace the lower seals with the Mercedes type- they're much more robust than the crappy aftermarket VW junk:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Lower-MBenz-280SE-280SEL...mp;vxp=mtr

NOTE: These are for 1776cc and up bigger engines running stock D-Jet.

Will the Mercedes seals work on a totally stock FI/heads? They look a good bit different from the original. Is there any special 'fitment' issue/installation procedure with these vs original?
On a different vein, I have a NOS FI wiring harness for a '71. Is this usable without modification on a '68?
Thanks.


Yes, they'll work fine.

No, you can't just plug a 1971 harness into your '68 system. You'll need a four prong throttle switch throttle body with a temp sensor 1 and cold start valve in the throttle body, a C MAP sensor, a C or D control unit, and if your head temp sensor is still on the bottom of the head rather than up top you'll need an extension wire. You'll also need to bolt on a thermo time switch for the cold start system.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 11:19 am    Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! Reply with quote

I'm trying to get a new FI wiring harness built by Jeff Bowlsby and the wiring diagram he has for the '68/'69 has the cold start circuit. My car does not have that circuit. I checked all the books that I have (Bently, Clymer, Haynes, and Elfrink) and none of them have the one without that circuit.
I guess my question has two parts. 1) Can I use a harness with that circuit built into it (and just ignore the extra wires) or 2) does anyone have the wiring diagram without that part?
Jeff suggested that I send my old harness in and he could build from it, but I was really hoping to keep it in the car to use as a guide for installing the new one.
Thanks.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 11:29 am    Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! Reply with quote

The cold start system was a retrofitted on some cars and so the harnesses will be separate. At a later point they were merged from the factory. I honestly do not know if you can just leave the "extra" wires disconnected.

Your best bet is to send him your old one. Take lots of digital photos of your current harness installed, including all routing and twists/turns near the connectors.

He can buzz out your old one to be sure his new one works the same.


Last edited by KTPhil on Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 9:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! Reply with quote

KTPhil wrote:
The cold start system was a retrofitted on some cars and so the harnesses will be separate. At a later point they were merged from the factory. I honestly do not know if you can just leave the "extra" wires disconnected.

Your best bet is to send him your old one. Take lots of digital photos of your current harness installed, including all routing and twists/turns near the collectors.

He can buzz out your old one to be sure his new one works the same.


I've installed NOS harnesses on '68/69 A-B cars that had the cold start system wires included in the harness on cars without cold start and you just don't hook up the extra wires to anything. The whole CS system runs off a spare lug on the starter 15/54 circuit so if you don't hook that wire up nothing is energized in that circuit.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 5:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! (STALL WHEN I PRESS THE GAS) Reply with quote

Hello,

I just bought a 84 Vangon/westie. We went through and replaced all the fuel lines, rebuilt the injectors, replaced the injector gaskets, replaced all the vacuum lines, replaced the fuel filter and replaced the coil. She will start and idle fine ish. The problem is once you hit the gas just a little she will fall on her face. If you tap the gas and get the RPMs up the stall goes away. Once you are driving and press the gas the stall is still there. You can get her down the road fine but she does not have the power she should. The stall also shows its ugly head when the gas is wide open throttle. Can someone please help? She is water cooled not air cooled. Thanks!!

Geoff
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! Reply with quote

I'm not familiar with the system on those cars, but if it were a Type 3, I'd be checking for vacuum leaks, proper distributor advance, and finally the throttle position switch.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:01 am    Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! Reply with quote

KTPhil wrote:
I'm not familiar with the system on those cars, but if it were a Type 3, I'd be checking for vacuum leaks, proper distributor advance, and finally the throttle position switch.




I replaced all my vacuum lines and rechecked for leaks, did not find any. The only thing I have not done yet is check the timing.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:34 am    Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! Reply with quote

You don't have a location in your signature, so we can't even suggest a local VW mechanic who could probably cure your problems.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 1:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! Reply with quote

Mike Fisher wrote:
You don't have a location in your signature, so we can't even suggest a local VW mechanic who could probably cure your problems.


I am in Hazel Green AL
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! Reply with quote

www.airkooledkustoms.com
is in Hazel Green. Tell them your problem. Pay some VW mechanic, but pay attention & maybe next time you can fix it yourself. Wink
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! Reply with quote

Mike Fisher wrote:
www.airkooledkustoms.com
is in Hazel Green. Tell them your problem. Pay some VW mechanic, but pay attention & maybe next time you can fix it yourself. Wink



Haha, thats funny because I work there and am a VW mechanic! So I know exactly where they are located. We are so slammed I have not had a lot of time to really dig deep into troubleshooting and wanted to see if anyone has had the same problem before. But thanks, there is really no need for me to pay myself to troubleshoot my own vehicle. You might want to know who you are talking to before you throw out smart remarks about paying attention.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 6:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! Reply with quote

Well if you or Spook can't fix it then I guess you're "up shit creek"? Take this problem to the Vanagon Forum where it belongs. Rolling Eyes
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 7:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! Reply with quote

Mike Fisher wrote:
Well if you or Spook can't fix it then I guess you're "up shit creek"? Take this problem to the Vanagon Forum where it belongs. Rolling Eyes


Last I checked this was a fuel injection form. So I am good here.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 12:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! (STALL WHEN I PRESS THE GAS) Reply with quote

bluemouse wrote:
Hello,

I just bought a 84 Vangon/westie. We went through and replaced all the fuel lines, rebuilt the injectors, replaced the injector gaskets, replaced all the vacuum lines, replaced the fuel filter and replaced the coil. She will start and idle fine ish. The problem is once you hit the gas just a little she will fall on her face. If you tap the gas and get the RPMs up the stall goes away. Once you are driving and press the gas the stall is still there. You can get her down the road fine but she does not have the power she should. The stall also shows its ugly head when the gas is wide open throttle. Can someone please help? She is water cooled not air cooled. Thanks!!

Geoff



This is a really common symptom on Digifant 1, 2 and digijet derivatives.

If nothing else is wrong on those symptoms...meaning all of your sensors are nominal (02, AFM, water temp etc.) and the knock sensor (if you have one) is good...and fuel pressure is good...and timing is good....idle air controller is clean and functioning....throttle switches when present on your model...adjusted exactly to factory gap...everything nominal.....then check these two things.

1. Pull the ECU plug and check very carefully for corrosion. I usually use a plastic pick to remove anything visible and then treat with Pro-gold oxidization remover followed by the 2nd part electrolyte liquid and then plug them back together. Works wonders. Its common on these systems that the gasket around the harness plug sweats moisture over time.

2. This next one is the MOST common item that causes the problem you describe.

Its actually a heavy misfire under load. Any kind of load. As it gets worse....you can find yourself out on the highway running at high rpms and highway speed...and at constant speed using NO throttle movement...the engine runs like a dream.

BUT...any slight throttle movement...can set off major stumbling, misfiring and black smoke from exhaust.

It will lead you to believe...for example...on digifant 2....that it is a adjustment of the throttle valve switch gap. You will check that and find that it is perfect as is the switch output.

It will lead you to believe its a fuel pressure volume variation...but putting a gauge on it and riving...will tell you thet the fuel pressure is fine.

It will lead you to surmise that there is an issue with the MAF unit. Testing, cleaning and adjustment will tell you that it is not.

It will lead you to believe that it is an ignition advance misfire releated issue.....and you will in fact be getting warmer.

What it is...in fact....is a very bad ground condition for the EFI system. It is usually a mechanical issue at one of the main ground points. I say mechanical because its usually how the ring or female terminal is clamped. As the engine revs...vibration causes...fluctation in ground quality.

This gives current variation to the ECU..which is busy adjusting your advance and fuel mixture electronically. It causes rapid...HUGE swings in ignition advance...which causes an instant cascade in some of these systems when they use a combination of 02 sensor and knock sensor.

The initial misfire causes a knock sensor event in just 1-2 cylinder misfirings...pulling advance way back and bumping up enrichment....which then fights with the 02 sensor that is trying to stabilize fuel mixture...and the ignition timing swings wildly under load.

Look carefully at all ground points to the ECU AND ignition system. Do not just wiggle them. unclip and unbolt them. Inspect the crimp quality and look for corrosion.

This was a VERY common issue in the watercooled rabbits and Jettas with digifant 2. It entailed literally removing the ring terminal that was bolted to teh top of the transmission....the ring terminal was bolted face up to the aluminum...sandwiched there by the bolt head.

With age the bolt head wore either the aluminum on the trans or the copper on the terminal from vibration. Though the bolt seemed tight....you could not move the ring terminal.....as it heated up and vibrated....it became slightly movable.

I found the best way to fix these was to crimp on a steel flat lug....and put it between two washers and slip the bolt through it so that you could put a lot more torque on it. Fixed the problem. Ray
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