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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22425
Location: Kimball, Mi
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 Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:14 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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| Tangerine wrote: |
I'm trying to get a new FI wiring harness built by Jeff Bowlsby and the wiring diagram he has for the '68/'69 has the cold start circuit. My car does not have that circuit. I checked all the books that I have (Bently, Clymer, Haynes, and Elfrink) and none of them have the one without that circuit.
I guess my question has two parts. 1) Can I use a harness with that circuit built into it (and just ignore the extra wires) or 2) does anyone have the wiring diagram without that part?
Jeff suggested that I send my old harness in and he could build from it, but I was really hoping to keep it in the car to use as a guide for installing the new one.
Thanks. |
When I had Jeff make my new 71 harness, I had him leave out the cold start part of the system. It never effected how it drove, and the car would start dow to 0*F without a problem.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Tangerine
Samba Member
Joined: May 09, 2016
Posts: 41
Location: North Central Arkansas
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:59 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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Is there a source for the cylinder head temperature sensor? Or a workable, available replacement?
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68 Variant FI
71 SB Sedan
73 SB Cabriolet |
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KTPhil 
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34013
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:06 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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| Try searching in this forum. The ring-type have been discussed, and the threads will tell you how to match sender and gauge. |
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Tangerine
Samba Member
Joined: May 09, 2016
Posts: 41
Location: North Central Arkansas
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:38 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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Sorry, I may not have been clear in my question. I wasn't trying to hook up a temperature gauge, I am interested if there is a replacement for the TII (cylinder head) temperature sensor (the single wire one). My understanding is that it was last made out of unobtanium and is NLA. The last posts that I remember seeing on the subject, indicated that a replacement that someone had located was also going NLA.
Since this sensor seems to be of the more crucial ones in the D-Jetronic system, I am concerned.
_________________
68 Variant FI
71 SB Sedan
73 SB Cabriolet |
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Donnie strickland
Samba Member
Joined: December 21, 2009
Posts: 2403
Location: Moody, AL
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nogoodwithusernames
Samba Member
Joined: November 10, 2014
Posts: 599
Location: CA, USA
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KTPhil
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34013
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:15 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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Interesting that they do not list them as applicable to the Type 3. Any chance they physically fit, but are not calibrated the same? |
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nogoodwithusernames
Samba Member
Joined: November 10, 2014
Posts: 599
Location: CA, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:28 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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| KTPhil wrote: |
Interesting that they do not list them as applicable to the Type 3. Any chance they physically fit, but are not calibrated the same? |
I don't know about those Donnie posted, but the T3 and Porsche parts are interchangeable according to Paul Anders Rennlist
Cylinder Head Temperature Sensor
Porsche number: 311 906 041 A
Bosch/VW number: 0 280 130 003 1.7L 1970 - 1973
Bosch/VW number: 0 280 130 012 2.0L 1974-1976
Discrepancies: The PPC lists this Porsche/VW part number for the engines below. The BGDIP cross-references this VW part number to the 0 280 130 003 sensor, which is the sensor for the 1968-1969 Type 3's. I checked with my local Bosch supplier and the ...003 is the part he found for this Porsche/WV number . The DSM lists the 0 280 130 012 sensor for these engines and years, but not for the 1974 2.0L. Note that the 0 280 130 003 sensor is used by some 914 owners to get a richer cold engine mixture.
http://members.rennlist.com/pbanders/djetparts.htm
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71 Squareback, 1.7l T4 w/ crank trigger fuel and spark
(Conversion thread https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=732508&highlight= or https://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=151375&sid=f0542d44a322d290c29d6609fac7f215 )
74 914, 2.0L w/ D-Jet
-Derek |
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Donnie strickland
Samba Member
Joined: December 21, 2009
Posts: 2403
Location: Moody, AL
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 5:01 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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Yes, that's correct.
At any rate these are the only new production units available right now. I've ordered one to compare with the one on my car now.
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71 Elm Green FI A/T Squareback |
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KTPhil
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34013
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 5:46 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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| I have a feeling that if you confirm they are suitable, there will be a run on them pronto! I'd like to have a spare... I am slowly gathering my "ready for the next 30 years" parts stash, especially FI stuff. |
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Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22425
Location: Kimball, Mi
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| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:32 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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| KTPhil wrote: |
| I have a feeling that if you confirm they are suitable, there will be a run on them pronto! I'd like to have a spare... I am slowly gathering my "ready for the next 30 years" parts stash, especially FI stuff. |
Yup, T-3 FI parts are soon becoming the next T-34 parts. So get them while you can.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21519
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:10 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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| Bobnotch wrote: |
| KTPhil wrote: |
| I have a feeling that if you confirm they are suitable, there will be a run on them pronto! I'd like to have a spare... I am slowly gathering my "ready for the next 30 years" parts stash, especially FI stuff. |
Yup, T-3 FI parts are soon becoming the next T-34 parts. So get them while you can. |
Yep.....as I have been saying....for about 7 years now.....start collecting what you can. You think type 3 is hard to work on?......the type 3 is about to become the next 411/412.
As for you type 34 guys.....I feel for you guys. They truly are harder than type 4 cars to restore. Just too few.
I found numerous work arounds for the TS2 years ago. I started long before there were issues because the stock TS2.....for the stock engine is overall excellent. Works just fine.....but in hot weather climates is just adequate and needs ballast in too many cases.
But once you get outside of the factory tuning envelope with D-jet.....the stock TS2 is a detriment. Drops too low and is a bit slow or fast in the midrange depending on tuning....and cools off and drops too fast compared to the reat of the engine.
Besides.....the system just does not need the incremental range. The ECU does not have the input/output resolution to respond to every 1 ohm....or even every 10 ohm increment step.
Depending on your state of tune you can suffice with as few as 5 midrange step ranges with a definite locked minimum ohm range (max warmed up) .....or as many as 10 ranges.
There are numerous fairly easy ways to do this. If you want to know more just ask. Ray |
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Donnie strickland
Samba Member
Joined: December 21, 2009
Posts: 2403
Location: Moody, AL
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:38 am Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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| KTPhil wrote: |
| I have a feeling that if you confirm they are suitable, there will be a run on them pronto! I'd like to have a spare... I am slowly gathering my "ready for the next 30 years" parts stash, especially FI stuff. |
Well I got an update today...they're already back ordered again, so it'll be a while.
_________________
71 Elm Green FI A/T Squareback |
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Tangerine
Samba Member
Joined: May 09, 2016
Posts: 41
Location: North Central Arkansas
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:22 am Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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| Donnie strickland wrote: |
| KTPhil wrote: |
| I have a feeling that if you confirm they are suitable, there will be a run on them pronto! I'd like to have a spare... I am slowly gathering my "ready for the next 30 years" parts stash, especially FI stuff. |
Well I got an update today...they're already back ordered again, so it'll be a while. |
Yeah, when I ordered one a couple days ago, they noted that it was out of stock and projected ship date later this month. Time will tell...
_________________
68 Variant FI
71 SB Sedan
73 SB Cabriolet |
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bluemouse
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2014
Posts: 10
Location: Hazel Green AL
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| Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 9:03 am Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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| Thanks for getting back to me Raygreenwood. When I get the time I am thinking about just rebuilding the whole FI system and ring out all the wires to ensure they have proper connections and not grounding out. |
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gm4lnch
Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2012
Posts: 44
Location: Denver, Co
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:36 am Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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| I have a "misfire" on cylinders 2 and 3. I have spark to both but when I remove the plug wires I get no change in the motor, remove 1 or 3 and the car almost dies. I have tested the injectors with a 9 volt and carb cleaner (away from car) and the injector open and close and seem to spray good. What could be causing the dead cylinders? Ground? Fuel pressure? Compression? On a stock 72 fuel injection 1600, PO stated ran good when parked, sat 5 years, replace fuel pump, fuel filter, fuel lines, plugs, plug wires, coil, rotor button, vacuum lines (dizzy and manifold), adjusted valves, retorqued heads, adjusted points, timed to 5 degree per Bentley, cleaned and greased trigger points. I am lost and want to keep it fuel injected if at all possible. |
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KTPhil
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34013
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:45 am Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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| gm4lnch wrote: |
| I have a "misfire" on cylinders 2 and 3. I have spark to both but when I remove the plug wires I get no change in the motor, remove 1 or 3 and the car almost dies. I have tested the injectors with a 9 volt and carb cleaner (away from car) and the injector open and close and seem to spray good. What could be causing the dead cylinders? Ground? Fuel pressure? Compression? On a stock 72 fuel injection 1600, PO stated ran good when parked, sat 5 years, replace fuel pump, fuel filter, fuel lines, plugs, plug wires, coil, rotor button, vacuum lines (dizzy and manifold), adjusted valves, retorqued heads, adjusted points, timed to 5 degree per Bentley, cleaned and greased trigger points. I am lost and want to keep it fuel injected if at all possible. |
Please stick with your original thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=672265 |
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Donnie strickland
Samba Member
Joined: December 21, 2009
Posts: 2403
Location: Moody, AL
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:45 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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| Tangerine wrote: |
| Donnie strickland wrote: |
| KTPhil wrote: |
| I have a feeling that if you confirm they are suitable, there will be a run on them pronto! I'd like to have a spare... I am slowly gathering my "ready for the next 30 years" parts stash, especially FI stuff. |
Well I got an update today...they're already back ordered again, so it'll be a while. |
Yeah, when I ordered one a couple days ago, they noted that it was out of stock and projected ship date later this month. Time will tell... |
The new sensor arrived today. I'll get installed and try it out in the next day or two.
_________________
71 Elm Green FI A/T Squareback |
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KTPhil
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34013
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:02 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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| Donnie strickland wrote: |
The new sensor arrived today. I'll get installed and try it out in the next day or two.
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Before you install it, can you map resistance vs. temperature for this new sensor, at least up to 212F (warmer if you use oil, not water)? It would be interesting to see how the data compares to an original part.
I ask because the part may work in your car, but since some cars seem to like biasing, the fact that it works in yours may not prove it's a true equivalent.
Demanding, ain't I? |
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Donnie strickland
Samba Member
Joined: December 21, 2009
Posts: 2403
Location: Moody, AL
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:29 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel injection relief here! |
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I tested at three repeatable temperatures which I can confirm as accurate: 70, 120 and 212 Fahrenheit. Here are the results:
70=2400 ohms
120=1140 ohms
212=241 ohms
These seem to agree well with Richard Atwell's chart.
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71 Elm Green FI A/T Squareback |
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