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craigman Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2004 Posts: 2397 Location: redding
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Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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Strokers rule!
Only thing better is, stroker with big bore! |
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DarthWeber Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2007 Posts: 7543 Location: Whittier,CA
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Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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craigman wrote: |
Strokers rule!
Only thing better is, stroker with big bore! |
And Super Squishy pistons!!!! |
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craigman Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2004 Posts: 2397 Location: redding
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Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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Ya i'd like to play with a set of those! |
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DarthWeber Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2007 Posts: 7543 Location: Whittier,CA
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Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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It appears, from what I've read from those who have used them, that even with a performance cam and 2276cc's they are getting gas mileage in the mid 20's to low 30's mpg. Impressive for a performance engine. I wonder if that combustion efficiency would translate to say a 1600, if SS pistons were made in 85.5mm size. Maybe with efficient breathing capability, a mild cam and the benefits of SS design a 40 mpg engine would be possible with better than stock performance. |
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advinnie Samba Member
Joined: November 18, 2011 Posts: 1389 Location: oxfordshire
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Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 7:36 am Post subject: |
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I now this is an old thread and im no engineer but I will tell you want I noticed with my little stroker 74mm crank with 85.5mm pistons 1699cc engine. It started of as a mildly tuned 1600cc in a beetle with 90 my top speed and a 0-60 time of just over ten seconds. Then I fitted a 74mm crank every thing else was the same, same heads, cam, rockers, exhaust and carbs. The top end speed never changed still 90 mph but the 0-60 time dropped to 8.5 to 9 seconds. Now that was an important. Plus my brother has a 1776cc 69mm crank 90.5mm pistons and of the line I win every time and he does struggle to keep up with me in town. But once he hits over 4000 ish rpms he's gone so in town my 1699cc mini stroker wins hands down but on the open road the 1776cc wins. Now I much prefer my 1699cc to my bothers 1776cc it's so much better to drive. |
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mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:48 am Post subject: |
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I dont think you want a small cam with super squishey thingies in the barrells...
stroke it then bore it,it feals good. |
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advinnie Samba Member
Joined: November 18, 2011 Posts: 1389 Location: oxfordshire
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Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:04 am Post subject: |
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I have a gene berg 307 cam with 1.4 rockers. But boring it would of cost me another £300 to £400 more and I didn't have that money to hand plus I was not sure my kadron 40s would work if I had fitted 90.5mm pistons ( 1905cc with the 74mm ). |
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vwracerdave Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004 Posts: 15307 Location: Deep in the 405
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Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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advinnie wrote: |
I now this is an old thread and im no engineer but I will tell you want I noticed with my little stroker 74mm crank with 85.5mm pistons 1699cc engine. It started of as a mildly tuned 1600cc in a beetle with 90 my top speed and a 0-60 time of just over ten seconds. Then I fitted a 74mm crank every thing else was the same, same heads, cam, rockers, exhaust and carbs. The top end speed never changed still 90 mph but the 0-60 time dropped to 8.5 to 9 seconds. Now that was an important. Plus my brother has a 1776cc 69mm crank 90.5mm pistons and of the line I win every time and he does struggle to keep up with me in town. But once he hits over 4000 ish rpms he's gone so in town my 1699cc mini stroker wins hands down but on the open road the 1776cc wins. Now I much prefer my 1699cc to my bothers 1776cc it's so much better to drive. |
You can not compare your 1699 to your brothers 1776 unless both cars have the exact same gearing, tire size and weigh. If your transaxle gearing is different then that is why your car seems faster off the line. _________________ 2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63
Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos |
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AlteWagen Troll
Joined: February 23, 2007 Posts: 8503 Location: PNW
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Danwvw Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012 Posts: 8892 Location: Oregon Coast
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Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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Don't strokers make more power at lower RPM? And Bore will give more power at Higher RPM. Guess it just where you want your power! Put the 74mm CrankShaft in the 1971 Bus and man what a difference that makes! _________________ 1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths! |
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craigman Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2004 Posts: 2397 Location: redding
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Posted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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Danwvw wrote: |
Don't strokers make more power at lower RPM? And Bore will give more power at Higher RPM. Guess it just where you want your power! Put the 74mm CrankShaft in the 1971 Bus and man what a difference that makes! |
Yep strokers make more power down low!
Torque rules! |
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advinnie Samba Member
Joined: November 18, 2011 Posts: 1389 Location: oxfordshire
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Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:44 am Post subject: |
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vwracerdave wrote: |
advinnie wrote: |
I now this is an old thread and im no engineer but I will tell you want I noticed with my little stroker 74mm crank with 85.5mm pistons 1699cc engine. It started of as a mildly tuned 1600cc in a beetle with 90 my top speed and a 0-60 time of just over ten seconds. Then I fitted a 74mm crank every thing else was the same, same heads, cam, rockers, exhaust and carbs. The top end speed never changed still 90 mph but the 0-60 time dropped to 8.5 to 9 seconds. Now that was an important. Plus my brother has a 1776cc 69mm crank 90.5mm pistons and of the line I win every time and he does struggle to keep up with me in town. But once he hits over 4000 ish rpms he's gone so in town my 1699cc mini stroker wins hands down but on the open road the 1776cc wins. Now I much prefer my 1699cc to my bothers 1776cc it's so much better to drive. |
You can not compare your 1699 to your brothers 1776 unless both cars have the exact same gearing, tire size and weigh. If your transaxle gearing is different then that is why your car seems faster off the line. |
Good point he has a 1500 gt box and I have a 1200 gearbox will both had kadron 40s with 55 idle jets and I have a 155 main jet l believe he has the next size up. But it goes to prove that with the right gearbox a 1699c can be just as good or better than a 1776cc in town driving witch I think is much more fun than all out top speed driving on the motorway
Last edited by advinnie on Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:53 am; edited 1 time in total |
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advinnie Samba Member
Joined: November 18, 2011 Posts: 1389 Location: oxfordshire
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Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:46 am Post subject: |
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Sorry one more thing just thought he has a Engle 110 cam I have a gene berg 307 cam witch is equal to the Engle 100. |
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Vanapplebomb Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2010 Posts: 5411 Location: Holland, MI
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Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:14 am Post subject: |
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Funny thing to think about... The 1700 and 1800 type 4 engines had a bigger bore but were destroked compaired to a type one, and everybody loves the torque that they have. Guess that just goes to say that there is more to the picture than simply bore and stroke. Winkwinnk _________________ 1800 Type 4 Berrien 295
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021 |
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Danwvw Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012 Posts: 8892 Location: Oregon Coast
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Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:08 am Post subject: |
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The type 4 came in at least 2 different strokes didn't it? I think the 1800 was 66mm Not sure but the early Type 4 engine may have had even less stroke and the later Type 4 more. _________________ 1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths! |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26787 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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yeah, stroke is 66 and 71 I think. Also note the length of the rods, much shorter!! The shorter rod ratio probably did help the "torque", but has opposite effect on exhaust flow.......which was part of it's misfortune. |
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craigman Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2004 Posts: 2397 Location: redding
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Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, the type 4 had 66mm and 71mm stroke stock.
The 66mm was used for the 1.7 & 1.8. The 71mm was used for the 2.0. |
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Vanapplebomb Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2010 Posts: 5411 Location: Holland, MI
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Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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The 1.7 and 1.8 engines are tanks...arguably one of the most durable gas engines ever installed in a car. They were more of an industrial engine than an automobile engine. They could run at or near full power for a ridiculous amount of time. Solid torquey motors made to pull like an ox all day long.
And just for fun, there are always those 2.5 meter long stroke Sulzer engines...big two stroke diesel engines. The inline 14 cylinder engine made over 5.6 MILLION FtLbs for torque at 102 RPM. All that at above 50% thermal efficiency!
MAN, now controlled by Volkswagen, also makes large low speed two stroke diesel engines that compete with Sulzer that make crazy torque and efficiency...I think the number was 54% or 56% thermal efficiency. _________________ 1800 Type 4 Berrien 295
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021 |
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Vanapplebomb Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2010 Posts: 5411 Location: Holland, MI
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Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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Bet ya didn't know VW had their hands in this kinda engine work, did ya?!?
Check out the size of this guy compaired to the hydraulic exhaust valve lifters on the top floor of the engine. Those nice shiny curved pipes are the high pressure oil lines that move the exhaust valves!!! (no intake valves, uniflow two stroke diesel.)
Here is another good bore vs stroke one for ya guys. This is the Fairbanks Morse 8 1/8 D8. It is also a two stroke industrial diesel, just much smaller. Still, the pistons are 8.125in in diameter, but each piston has a stroke of about 10 inches for a combined expansion stroke of about 20 inches!! Opposed piston engines do away with the exhaust valves by replacing them with another piston and ring of ports. They make lots of these engines for the US NAVY as well as for standby generators for Nuclear Power plants. Over half of Americas Nuke power plants have these engines installed in them for standby power.
_________________ 1800 Type 4 Berrien 295
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021 |
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Type 4 Unleashed Samba Member
Joined: December 13, 2004 Posts: 88 Location: Aliso Viejo, CA
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Posted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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I work on these every week, MAN B&W and Sultzer Cargo ship engines. Rods are about 14 feet long running bearing clearances around 1.9mm, pistons are about 3 1/2 feet in diameter with 5 compression rings. The exh valves with a 2 1/2 ft head and 5 feet long and are made of Inconel, each bank of cyl's has it's own 10 ft tall Turbo Charger. Heads are torqued to 900 BAR (a bar is about 15 psi), a single head nut weighs about 70 pds.
A 42 day round trip to Guam, China, Korea, Japan back to California burns about a Million dollars in Heavy Fuel Oil (HFO). So yes Torque monsters, running 80 to 90 rpm 24 hrs a day 7 days a week or until arrival at their destination.
I was in a storm one time, the propeller started caveating with a lot of vibration because while the 300 yd long ship was on a swell the propeller was spinning in the air...
Vanapplebomb wrote: |
Bet ya didn't know VW had their hands in this kinda engine work, did ya?!?
Check out the size of this guy compaired to the hydraulic exhaust valve lifters on the top floor of the engine. Those nice shiny curved pipes are the high pressure oil lines that move the exhaust valves!!! (no intake valves, uniflow two stroke diesel.)
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_________________ Richard
“Have you ever noticed how some people never
have the money to do it right, but can always
find the money to do it twice ?”
Ethics & Honor - Qualities That Seem To Have Been
Lost, Or More Likely, In Most Case's Never Had. |
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