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Rocknrod
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Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 2157
Location: North Carolina
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 Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 12:08 pm Post subject: 1971... Wiring questions. |
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Hi guys,
Got most everything up and running, I just have a few loose ends.
There is a .5 mm gray wire coming out of the same bundle that is leaving the steering column. I can't find this listed anywhere on the diagrams, somebody cut it and threw some tape over it.
I revived the high beam dimmer relay... it clicks open and closed, but my high beams do not get power in either position. My fuses are not blown... is there a relay that turns on the headlights? If so, where can I find it?
Do the hazard lights use the same relay as the turn signal flasher? I need to swing by the parts store and get another, mine is rusted solid.
Did all buses come with fresh air fans? If so, where is the switch located to turn them on and off?
Thanks guys! Gotta get her road legal!
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1971 Westfalia with a high top.
http://71vwbus.blogspot.com/ - Pictures and words... Oh My! |
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busdaddy
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Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51125
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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Grey wire is for the key buzzer IIRC.
Sounds like your hi/lo relay is NFG, if it's clicking it's getting power, shares it with the black/white headlight supply wire from the headlight switch.
Hazards and signals use the same relay.
Fresh air fan switch is a knob beside the headlight switch, look for a wire going down into the top of each fresh air vent duct screwed on section to see if you have them.
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rhinoman1947
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Joined: March 24, 2005
Posts: 226
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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| I noticed the gray wire going nowhere, also. Now that you've identified it, I'll sleep much sounder. Thanks. |
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steponmebbbboom
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Joined: May 01, 2004
Posts: 6390
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 4:45 pm Post subject: Re: 1971... Wiring questions. |
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| Rocknrod wrote: |
Did all buses come with fresh air fans? If so, where is the switch located to turn them on and off? |
check my gallery, i have a few pics of the ambulance fans and related parts. if you have them you are lucky, they were more common in canada and australia than in the US. |
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Rocknrod
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Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 2157
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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Cool.
I havent got the fans... rats!
But, found some more melted wire. Got that fixed up and my headlights work! Both highs and lows... must have been shorting out on the way to the relay. (still havent laid eyes on it.)
Flashers don't work yet, even with a new (F550) flasher plugged in. Gonna have to figure that one out.
Thanks guys
_________________
1971 Westfalia with a high top.
http://71vwbus.blogspot.com/ - Pictures and words... Oh My! |
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steponmebbbboom
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Joined: May 01, 2004
Posts: 6390
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2007 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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and by the way, that is part of the throttle return dashpot. it was plumbed to a diaphragm connected to your carburetor. the dashpot returns the throttle slowly to reduce tailpipe emissions. |
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Blaubus
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Joined: October 25, 2003
Posts: 5153
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 7:04 am Post subject: |
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some part stores have relays with pegs in the wrong positions. in my case it popped the fuse. there might be numbers on the new can by each peg match each number/peg to the corresponding wire color described in the diagram.
once that is straight, if it still doesnt work, then the three remaining variables are: power supply, peg connections, flasher switch, turn signal switch. go by process of elimination in that order till they work.
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Rocknrod
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Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 2157
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 7:38 am Post subject: |
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I'll check it out, thanks.
My fuse for turn signals doesnt blow... but the fuse for hazard lights pops when pulled.
_________________
1971 Westfalia with a high top.
http://71vwbus.blogspot.com/ - Pictures and words... Oh My! |
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Blaubus
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Joined: October 25, 2003
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 8:49 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| but the fuse for hazard lights pops when pulled |
several possibilities...
if the green wire is making poor contact either at the fuse block or the hazard switch peg, then the green wire fuse will pop if its the relay pegs that are mixed up. the fuse itself can also make poor contact- common in humid climates.
or, the black/green/white wire is touching ground near the hazard switch
or, the hazard switch is bad. |
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Jody '71
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Joined: July 16, 2005
Posts: 2842
Location: Manassas VA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:44 am Post subject: |
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Rocknrod,
I just checked the color diagram on our '71's (that is, anything after August '70 through August '71). I don't see a gray wire coming out of the steering column anywhere. The only gray wire I see comes from the headlight switch to the fuse block. If I'm correct, our 71's have a one year only turn signal switch assembly. You may have a different year turn signal switch in there, courtesy of a haphazard attempt at fixing the original switch that went south. This diagram does show the two fresh air fans, but I believe it to be the diagram for the European '71 Busses that is in English. My '71 Westy has a fan under the belly pan that forces the heat faster through the heat outlets with a toggle switch to the right of the headlight switch. I do not believe this is factory original however. I am the 4th owner of my Bus, so anything could have been done prior to me owning mine. I do know that this has the original turn signal assembly on the steering column. Additionally, do your turn signals cancel after completing a turn? How's your horn, does it do the "Little Miss Sunshine" and get stuck? Keep us '71 owners informed on your endeavor to fix this issue!!
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Blaubus
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Joined: October 25, 2003
Posts: 5153
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 11:51 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I just checked the color diagram on our '71's (that is, anything after August '70 through August '71). I don't see a gray wire coming out of the steering column anywhere. |
looking in my bentley, there is a grey wire, but it plugs into a terminal (T1) and then it becomes a brown wire that goes to the door switch, not to the fuse block. and then to the buzzer.
the ignition switch did apparently change from 70-71 in such a way that the headlights turn off when the ignition turns off. but i dont see any difference in the turn signal switch between 70 and 71. and some 72 TS switches have the same 8 wire confiuration/function as the 71 , but without the chrome stick. but generally the no. of wires went from 8 to 5 from 71 to 72. |
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Jody '71
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Joined: July 16, 2005
Posts: 2842
Location: Manassas VA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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Rocknrod and Dansvan,
Yes Bentley does rule. Rock, check your manufacture date on your door pillar when you open your driver's door. It will say what year and month it was made. The wiring changed in January 1971. I was looking at the pre-Jan 71' diagram. You'll find the gray/brown wires in post Jan'71's. My Bus was made in Sept hence the difference and not being able to locate a gray wire. "J" is your dimmer relay, that is what you may need to replace.
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busdaddy
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Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51125
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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Signal switches are all the same from 68-71 although the stalk is a little longer on the later ones. 72 is different and one year only, interesting news from dan though, perhaps using up old stock.
I've got a 70,71 and 72 and none of them turn off the headlights with the ign. like a beetle does, maybe a europe only thing.
Dimmer switch wire is brown with a white stripe in 71.
Just looked at 3 71's and none have a grey wire in the column, black with grey in the signal switch but no solid grey. The door/key buzzer wire is grey from the door switch to the fuse box, the door/key buzzer switch wire in the column is red.
Grey wires ( or grey with stripe) are generally parking lights, nothing for that in the column, trace it and see where it goes.
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Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
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Blaubus
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Joined: October 25, 2003
Posts: 5153
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| The wiring changed in January 1971. I was looking at the pre-Jan 71' diagram. You'll find the gray/brown wires in post Jan'71's. |
i was looking at the 70 diagram. thats where i found the buzzer wire coming off the ign.switch. i looked at the color diagram in my bentley, and until i looked under the magnifying light, i could not tell that it was brown. but again the first stop for that wire is the door switch, not the fuseblock. but no grey wire even on the 72 or 73 diagram, just the brown buzzer wire on all years 70-73
in january 71 they started the test network which my bus has, and they also changed the ignition and light switches. they mention about the Jan 71 change on the 72 diagram page
in the 70s/early71s, the + current supply travels from the starter peg, thru the light switch, and finally ends up at the fuse block- the light switch has 3 pegs for red #30 wires, and no X peg for the ignition activated headlight supply wire (black/yellow)
in the late 71/ 72, the + supply wire goes directly from the starter peg to the fuse block. a single #30 red wire to the headlight switch supplies the two striped grey wires for the front running lights, and the single solid grey for the rear tail lights. but the headlights are supplied solely by the black/yellow striped wire from the ignition switch. my 71 headlights are ignition activated and it is absolutely an american model.
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Rocknrod
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Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 2157
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks guys...
Still havent found it, gonna pull the column and get it on a bench to see whats what. Need to revamp the steering box, its got a heck of a popping noise when you turn the wheel! (And the upper mount is shimmed with a cambell soup can, which is just wrong. Can't have that!)
My headlights are ignition activated. Forgot to check the date of manufacture.
The last guy in has butt connections on the wires going into the column... must have shorted out in the plastic junction blocks! Any smart ways to put disconnects in the line? I'm a gm guy, weatherproof connections are the norm... I'm ok with butt connectors, but I hate that they cut the the wire every time something needs to be replaced.
_________________
1971 Westfalia with a high top.
http://71vwbus.blogspot.com/ - Pictures and words... Oh My! |
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Rocknrod
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Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 2157
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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Update:
Pulled the turn signal switch down... cleaned it all up.
Parts store had, what I believe to be the last NOS hazard switch. Slightly slightly different one. No spot for the yellow wire, figuring its for a different car... resistor instead of a spade.
Still blew the fuse.
Put a 20 amp circuit breaker on it, flasher went "ping."
Pulled the flasher out, figured out which blades did what... (Labeled in alpha, not numerical so couldn't match the diagram, no old flasher to disect.) Sounds like my flasher was wired wrong. (Fried it when I hooked it up so the thermal wasn't activated by the contact... oops!)
Flasher was a parts store F550, $2.50 for it... 3 blade.
Got a VW unit on the way. Will see if that is the problem.
...
About pulling the column, how is the lower support set up? The column its self is loose as a goose down at the base, with the remnants of a plastic ring.
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1971 Westfalia with a high top.
http://71vwbus.blogspot.com/ - Pictures and words... Oh My! |
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Rocknrod
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Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 2157
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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Update... Got the motor in. Welded in new battery tray, popped windshield out to find rust holes... welded that back up. Its registered, and insured.
But... I still don't have turn signals!
I've got a WEHRLE flasher, which was as close as I could find to the VW part. 3 prong. The flasher to go off, and I can get dash lights. I can't get both to happen at the same time, and the marker lights have not flashed once.
blue brown white - How it was wired when I got it. Blows fuse, instantly.
blue white brown - Doesnt blow fuse, dash lights come on with hazard switch.
White Blue Brown - Lights are on when headlight switch is on
White brown blue - Lights on when headlight switch is on
brown white blue - Lights come on dash.
brown blue white - Flasher comes on with turnsignal, clicks very fast... dash lights on.
Correct me here:
Blue wire = Feeds dash
White wire = Comes from hazard switch via turn signal.
Brown wire = Ground
Does the flashers bimetal switch open and close the ground, or the hot wire in this circuit?
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1971 Westfalia with a high top.
http://71vwbus.blogspot.com/ - Pictures and words... Oh My! |
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Rocknrod
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Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 2157
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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Update:
Got it all working. Had a bad ground on one tail light, a short at the front passenger marker light... and the black/green/white wire was on the wrong terminal on the hazard switch.
Had to draw a diagram and figure out where the flasher was coming and going to. Got juice flowing out to the bulbs, worked out from there.
Question:
Are both greenlights on the dash supposed to flash when the turn signal is on? Looking at the back, i've got a blue wire with a stripe that jumps between the two.
Thanks
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1971 Westfalia with a high top.
http://71vwbus.blogspot.com/ - Pictures and words... Oh My! |
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busdaddy
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Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51125
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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Yep, both green lights flash no matter which direction you turn.
Good to hear you are excorcising your demons.
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
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steponmebbbboom
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Joined: May 01, 2004
Posts: 6390
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| Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Rocknrod wrote: |
Are both greenlights on the dash supposed to flash when the turn signal is on? Looking at the back, i've got a blue wire with a stripe that jumps between the two.
Thanks |
yes. they both flash. i think hippie posted a link about a year ago that showed you how to make them flash individually, if you wish to. |
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