Official "What oil / additives should I use" topic

[EverettB]

[Vanapplebomb]

What is the general feeling about Lucas oil products? I have used their assembly lube in the past, and it is pretty nice stuff. I'm thinking of breaking in a motor with their break-in oil ~3000ppm ZDDP. A 5 quart jug is a pretty good value at 26 bucks assuming it is a good quality oil. After break in, they have a classic car oil with about 2000ppm ZDDP that sells for 30 buck for a 5 quart jug. Again, if it is a decent oil, at 6 bucks a quart, that isn't a bad value for something formulated with high zinc and good anti corrosion additives.
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1800 Type 4 Berrien 295

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021

[Quokka42]

Both of those contain far too much zddp and will increase wear on your engine.
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There has only ever been one man who was perfect, and they nailed Him to a cross.

[Vanapplebomb]

Does the Lucas classic car oil have a weaker film strength or something?
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1800 Type 4 Berrien 295

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021

[Juanito84]

[Quokka42]

Actually, phosphorous is the more important EP lubricant, but yes, over 1600ppm is generally accepted to cause undue wear in street engines.
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There has only ever been one man who was perfect, and they nailed Him to a cross.

[Juanito84]

[Quokka42]

Yeah, I think he gets that from the dithio- bit, so there is more of it, but iron phosphate provides better lubricating properties. A good article, though.
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There has only ever been one man who was perfect, and they nailed Him to a cross.

[Vanapplebomb]

I'm not sold on the idea of adding a breakin additive to regular Dino oil, but a lot of people seam to go that rout. I'm curious what other people's opinions are about the breakin additives.
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1800 Type 4 Berrien 295

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021

[Juanito84]

[Quokka42]

Read the article Juanito linked above - especially the bit on additives. You would want to know how much ZDDP is in the additive and your oil before and if you use it. Penrite has a break in oil readily available here that ticks all the boxes, so I don't use an additive, but if for example you are one who insists on a single grade his article lists some and how much to use.
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There has only ever been one man who was perfect, and they nailed Him to a cross.

[vwracerdave]

[Howard 111]

I'm another Valvoline racing oil user. It has zinc and phosphorus. Then I add one quart of Redline synthetic.
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1973 Karmann Ghia
Turbocharged, Fuel Injected
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=531270

[slalombuggy]

[quote="Vanapplebomb"]

[neil68]

I would be wary of using 15W40 at -40 degrees...I prefer 5W30.

Regarding 20W50, like some of you I used it for years in the spring & summer without issue. I realize that some charts show it as being acceptable down to -10 C/+14 F, but I wouldn't bank on it...especially if you get an unexpected cold spell and don't have time for an oil change.

Here's a video of how 20W50 pours at -20 C/+7 F.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmtSh4HMryw
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Neil.

Der Kleiner Rennwagens
68 Beetle 2332 cc, 204 WHP
12.5 seconds @ 107 mph
Dynojet Test: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9B_H3eklAo

[Quokka42]

I personally wouldn't use 20W50 below 20C, except in an old clapped out engine that needs it, in fact when I lived where temperatures were always above 20 (usually above 30C) I used 15W40.
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There has only ever been one man who was perfect, and they nailed Him to a cross.

[Juanito84]

15W-40 at -40°C!! Why not just use axle grease?

I do believe following VW's late 1970's oil recommendations is best, leaning towards thinner with tighter bearings and thicker wirh looser bearings. But a 15W-XX at -40°C (-40°F) is rediculous! VW would have recommened a 5W-XX. Now we have 0W-XX. I use 0W-30 and a heater here where it gets to -40°C (-40°F).
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If a water cooled engine cools its water with air, isn't it just an overcomplicated air cooled engine?

[slalombuggy]

I never had a problem with it. Don't know why everyone is all mad. I was young and it worked for me that's all I know drove for 3 years like that and tore the engine down to build a performance motor with the case when my SC got totalled. Guess I must have done something wrong for it to work. Block heaters are amazing thing I guess.

brad

[mark tucker]

I wont use lucas mucas in my motors,bad expearance with buildup on intake valves from using thier FUEL PRODUCT and never found anything that would cut it/disolve it other than blasting. as far as toomuch zinc it also builds up in the chambers and glows.....kinda like rodolphs nose but in your chamber it causes detonation. and does little for fog.
I use camshield cam lube and the camsheild oil additive for only the first oil in the motor and it gets changed with filter 40 min run time max. I do like problend oil addtive but havent used it in years since I retired and no longer has a deal on it I used it in all my v8 stuff.I dont recall using any in myvw.but it's possiab,e

[Wildthings]

Since the wife has been out of town for a couple of weeks I decided to do a bit of experimenting in the kitchen. I bought 8 different commonly available quarts of oils and threw them in the freezer and then at intervals of 2,3, and 2 days (one week overall) I pulled them out and tested their viscosity. My test instrument was just a yellow funnel I picked up from Walmart and nothing more, I just use the stop watch function on a cell phone to see how long it took for the funnel to empty. The testing was done at about 65°F so the thicker oils which took longer to drain through the funnel would have been effected more than the thinner oils. The simple testing equipment and procedure gave very repeatable results so I am happy enough with it.

The oils would all have been disturbed a bit being poured into the funnel so the result would reflect this, the drain times for many of the oils would likely have been much higher had they been allowed to sit in the funnel for a couple of days. The Valvoline 10w30 oil had an odd problem with entraining air which probably made a difference in its apparent viscosity.

Once I got done testing all the oils the third time I pulled each one out of the freezer again and shook the bottles for 30 seconds and then poured the oil into the funnel again and retested the oils. The viscosity of all the oils improved when doing this, several of the oils gave the same drain time as they had after two days of sitting while others gave even better drain times. Here the Valvoline oil was just chock full of bubbles so it was the only oil that didn't meet or improve on its two day sitting time.

All the oils were dino oils except the Mobile 1, 15w50, there was one odd result for the NAPA 30wt that I tossed. The oils were at 18° +/-2°F (-8°C) for all tests.

Oil brand/weight 2nd day test 5th day test 7th day test shaken

NAPA 15w40: . . . . . . 2:09 . . . . . . . 2:31 . . . . . . 3:42 . . . SH 2:07

NAPA 30wt: . . . . . . . .2:09 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2:29 . . . SH 2:07

Valvoline 10w30: . . . .1:27 . . . . . . . 1:54 . . . . . , 2:07 . . . SH 1:41

Autozone 30wt: . . . . .2:54 . . . . . . . 3:06 . . . . . . 3:31 . . . SH 2:25

Autozone 10w40: . . . 2:21 . . . . . . . 2:21 . . . . . . 2:22 . . . SH 1:39

Autozone 20w50: . . . 4:10 . . . . . . . 4:26 . . . . . . 5:23 . . . SH 3:17

Oreilly 30wt: . . . . . . 2:09 . . . . . . . 2:20 . . . . . . 2:16 . . . SH 2:09

Mobile 1 15w50: . . . .2:02 . . . . . . . 2:06 . . . . . . 1:58 . . . SH 1:33


Analysis

NAPA 15w40: this oil thickened quite a bit as it sat in the freezer for a week, once shook back up it drained the same as its two day time.

NAPA 30wt: this oil and the Oreilly 30wt both maintained their low viscosity well over a week in the freezer and the viscosity didn't change much when the bottles were shaken. They had a lower viscosity than any of the oils in the test other than the Valvoline 10w30 and the Mobile 1 15w50.

Valvoline 10w30: this was the thinnest oil in the test initially but didn't test better than the Mobile 1 15w50 once it had sat a week in the freezer. As I said above this oil entrained air badly.

Autozone 30wt: this oil started out thick and then thickened only slight further. It did thin to less than its two day viscosity once shaken. It was quite a bit thicker than the other two 30wts in the test.

Autozone 10w40: This oil gave very consistent results over a week in the freezer, it did however thin significantly when shaken, giving the same shaken viscosity as the Valvoline 10w30 and just slightly higher than the Mobile 1 15w50.

Autozone 20w50: This oil started out thick and got thicker over the week in the freezer. It would have taken minutes to fill the funnel if I didn't squeeze the bottle to force gobs of it out. The test results were definitely badly effected by the time it took to drain as this allowed the oil to warm quite a bit in the funnel and thus give shorter drain times than it would had the tests been done in a cold room. I wasn't sure that trying to shake this oil would do much as I couldn't feel it moving in the bottle, but it did thin noticeably when tested after being shook.

Mobile 1 15w50: This oil gave very consistent results, it did not thicken over the week in the freezer. It also gave the shortest drain time once shaken.


Opinions

The NAPA and Oreilly 30wt oils performed at well as the 10w40 and 15w40 oils in the test. I don't think either would have given a problem at VW recommended >32°F (0°C) temperatures. The Autozone 30wt was considerably thicker, thus showing that all oil with the same grade markings are not alike.

The Autozone 20w50 was too thick to have given reasonable starting at the test temperature. I doubt it would have passed either the SAE cold cranking or cold pumping tests.

The NAPA 15w40 was pretty marginal as well after sitting for a week. I question if it would have met the SAE specs as well.

The Autozone 10w40 was a very consistent oil and probably meets the SAE specs just fine and would be a reasonable oil to use at the test temeratures.

I tried Mobile 1 15w50 at the test temperatures years ago and found that it didn't allow for very easy starting and thus changed it out. I was thus surprised that it tested out as well as it did. A major plus for this oil and perhaps all Mobile 1 oils and other synthetics it that the oil didn't thicken any over a week in the cold.

I don't know what to think of the Valvoline with its air entrainment, too much air would certainly effect the cold pumping of this oil.

My test apparatus cost less than $2 and most of us have stop watch functions on our cell phones, thus it seems reasonable for one to throw a quart of oil in the freezer for a few days and see how it performs when considering what oils to buy for winter use.