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Max Welton
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2003
Posts: 10697
Location: Black Forest, CO
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Juanito84
Samba Member
Joined: March 17, 2012
Posts: 2436
Location: Colorado Mountains
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 Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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Max. It doesn't have to be that confusing. Just use Motul 8100 X-lite. I've never used it before, but I'm sure it's the best oil in the world for your car. Just let me know if it ruins your engine or not. Thanks! 
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If a water cooled engine cools its water with air, isn't it just an overcomplicated air cooled engine? |
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Max Welton
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2003
Posts: 10697
Location: Black Forest, CO
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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Oh, it's not confusing to me. But I can sure sympathize with someone trying to get The Answer in this thread.
Maybe the only option for someone being pulled this way and that is to simply pick someone to trust and ask that person privately what he/she recommends. Then ignore everyone else.
So how does one pick someone to trust? Good question. How does someone with no medical training select the best doctor? Or financial planner? Or lawyer? Or mechanic? At some point you need to start thinking things though for yourself. It takes time and practice. And not everyone can do it.
Cheery, no? 
Max
_________________
1967 Type-3 Fastback
Under the Knife https://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=151582
Home Stretch https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=767836 |
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andk5591
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005
Posts: 16757
Location: State College, PA
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 5:17 am Post subject: |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| vwracerdave wrote: |
| Vito85 wrote: |
so...... is the shell rotella oil 15/40w.... is the best oil that we can use ???
(the more I read more confuse on these 171 pages ) sorry
I have a 1970 vw bug type 1 irs
Sincerely |
NO.
Here in the United States the Federal Government changed the regulations for diesel motor oils and should no longer be used in gasoline engines. In other countries with different regulations it may still be safe to use.
My opinion is to use Valvoline VR-1 racing oil. Napa and O'Reilly's sell it. |
I have heard this over and over for many years, but as far as I know every Diesel rated oil that I regularly run into carries an S rating as well as a C rating.. If you have proof to back up your statement please post a link to it. |
I dont have the link handy, and as many of of you that have tried to reseacrh this - finding a table with things like zinc and phosphorus content in variousl oils is not easy. A little over a year ago I started digging and did find what I was looking for. At about the same time I was having 2 damaged fairly new engines redone due to piston damage for various reasons. Both engines had new cases and only had several thousand miles on them and I had run Rotella with some zinc additive in each since new.
Both had lifter bore and cam wear that was excessive. That was enough for me. I have switched all my cars to Amsoil Z-rod. The data that I had found also showed the VR-1 to be good, but some of the "good" oils were not as good as I wanted. Since I found what I needed and made my change I am not going through the research again. And keep in mind that data more than a couple years old is probably not valid.
And for the guy from I think Turkey - oil formulas in the US are most likely different than there - The diesel oil formulas have been changed over the last few years becauise the US is trying to clean up diesels as well. But its very possible that Rotella is fine there, but you want to verify.
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
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OzzyTR
Samba Member
Joined: August 04, 2014
Posts: 9
Location: TURKEY
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 7:57 am Post subject: |
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| andk5591 wrote: |
| Wildthings wrote: |
| vwracerdave wrote: |
| Vito85 wrote: |
so...... is the shell rotella oil 15/40w.... is the best oil that we can use ???
(the more I read more confuse on these 171 pages ) sorry
I have a 1970 vw bug type 1 irs
Sincerely |
NO.
Here in the United States the Federal Government changed the regulations for diesel motor oils and should no longer be used in gasoline engines. In other countries with different regulations it may still be safe to use.
My opinion is to use Valvoline VR-1 racing oil. Napa and O'Reilly's sell it. |
I have heard this over and over for many years, but as far as I know every Diesel rated oil that I regularly run into carries an S rating as well as a C rating.. If you have proof to back up your statement please post a link to it. |
I dont have the link handy, and as many of of you that have tried to reseacrh this - finding a table with things like zinc and phosphorus content in variousl oils is not easy. A little over a year ago I started digging and did find what I was looking for. At about the same time I was having 2 damaged fairly new engines redone due to piston damage for various reasons. Both engines had new cases and only had several thousand miles on them and I had run Rotella with some zinc additive in each since new.
Both had lifter bore and cam wear that was excessive. That was enough for me. I have switched all my cars to Amsoil Z-rod. The data that I had found also showed the VR-1 to be good, but some of the "good" oils were not as good as I wanted. Since I found what I needed and made my change I am not going through the research again. And keep in mind that data more than a couple years old is probably not valid.
And for the guy from I think Turkey - oil formulas in the US are most likely different than there - The diesel oil formulas have been changed over the last few years becauise the US is trying to clean up diesels as well. But its very possible that Rotella is fine there, but you want to verify. |
I asked my mechanic and he didn't recommend using diesel oils in our engines. he uses castrol gtx for all cars. |
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RHough
Samba Member
Joined: May 12, 2013
Posts: 299
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 9:10 am Post subject: |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| vwracerdave wrote: |
| Vito85 wrote: |
so...... is the shell rotella oil 15/40w.... is the best oil that we can use ???
(the more I read more confuse on these 171 pages ) sorry
I have a 1970 vw bug type 1 irs
Sincerely |
NO.
Here in the United States the Federal Government changed the regulations for diesel motor oils and should no longer be used in gasoline engines. In other countries with different regulations it may still be safe to use.
My opinion is to use Valvoline VR-1 racing oil. Napa and O'Reilly's sell it. |
I have heard this over and over for many years, but as far as I know every Diesel rated oil that I regularly run into carries an S rating as well as a C rating.. If you have proof to back up your statement please post a link to it. |
If an oil carries a S rating for gasoline engines it has been tested and meets those requirements. The idea that an oil that cannot pass the HD tests to get a C rating is somehow better for engines designed in the 1930's is suspect.
I have found *NO* industry or tech paper that warns against using CH, CI, or GJ rated oil in a gasoline engines as long as it also carries a SJ, SL, SM, or SN rating.
If someone can find some credible documentation for not using modern diesel oils in gasoline engines please post it!
From API:
http://www.api.org/certification-programs/engine-o...H_2013.pdf
I can find many references to US mandated changes to Diesel Fuel, but not oil.
Cheers,
Randy
(Still running Shell Rotella until someone can show me a lubrication failure) |
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Juanito84
Samba Member
Joined: March 17, 2012
Posts: 2436
Location: Colorado Mountains
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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How much molybdenum is too much in oil?
Motul 8100 X-Max 5W-40 0ppm
Amsoil Z-Rod 10W-30 60ppm
Valvoline VR1 20W-50 1ppm
Motul 300V 0W-40 656ppm!
Also silicone?
Motul 8100 X-Max 5W-40 4ppm
Amsoil Z-Rod 10W-30 4ppm
Valvoline VR1 20W-50 5ppm
Motul 300V 0W-40 12ppm!
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If a water cooled engine cools its water with air, isn't it just an overcomplicated air cooled engine? |
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Quokka42
Samba Member
Joined: December 02, 2010
Posts: 3117
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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Molybdenum is usually present as disulphide or similar, so the Motul figure is concerning.
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There has only ever been one man who was perfect, and they nailed Him to a cross. |
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andk5591
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005
Posts: 16757
Location: State College, PA
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I asked my mechanic and he didn't recommend using diesel oils in our engines. he uses castrol gtx for all cars. |
And he is wrong. Used to be good, but aint anymore.
here are some snippets I lifted from other sites:
| Quote: |
Thank you for contacting Castrol,
Castrol North America does not manufacture GTX in a 20w-40 grade.
The latest API SM/ILSAC GF-4 category calls for reduced Zinc and Phosphorus levels to allow extended catalyst life in current model vehicles. There appear to be field issues associated with the SM/GF-4 oil's level of antiwear in the classic car engines known as flat tappet cam engines. The current late model passenger car engines are not flat tappet cam engines and have no reported field issues related to the level of antiwear chemistry in the SM/GF-4 oils.
Product Recommendations for Flat Tappet (Solid Lifter) Cam Engines:
Castrol Syntec 20W-50 (Recent reformulation identified by "Recommended for Classic Cars" text on back label) (min Zn = 0.12 = 1200 ppm)(full synthetic)
New Motorcycle Products
Castrol Power RS GPS 10W-30, 10W-40 and 20W-50 (min Zn = 0.12 = 1200 ppm) Castrol Power RS R4 10W-50 and 5W-40 (min Zn = 0.12 = 1200 ppm) Castrol Power RS V-Twin 20W-40 and 20W-50 (min Zn = 0.12 = 1200 ppm)
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from shop talk forums
| Quote: |
Reference from:
http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthr ... 620&page=3
(Fellow asked for the phos and zinc numbers for GTX 20W50, the much beloved fave VW oil of yore)
"...Unfortunately the information you are requesting in proprietary. The Castrol
GTX 20W-50 has had a reduction of zinc and is not recommended to be used in Classic
cars with flat tappet cams.
Although the exact amount of zinc is proprietary, the level of Zinc in the
new re-formualted full synthetic Syntec 20W-50 is a minimum of 1200 ppm, which will provide excellent anti-wear protection for the cam and lifters in a flat-tappet cam engine.
Castrol Consumer Relations"
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_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
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Juanito84
Samba Member
Joined: March 17, 2012
Posts: 2436
Location: Colorado Mountains
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Quokka42 wrote: |
| Molybdenum is usually present as disulphide or similar, so the Motul figure is concerning. |
If I want a more modest amount of moly, could I just mix a little Motul 300V in with some Motul 5W-40 8100 X-Max or Motul 0W-30 8100 X-Lite?
_________________
If a water cooled engine cools its water with air, isn't it just an overcomplicated air cooled engine? |
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jcmyers
Samba Member
Joined: March 09, 2012
Posts: 184
Location: United States
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| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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| I use Valvoline VR1 20W-50 in a 1776 and Valvoline VR1 50w in a 2332. I figure these are good for the southern arizona temps. I Also now use a few oz of Stabil in the gas tank on the 2332, which just cured a really bad off idle issue I was having recently |
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Juanito84
Samba Member
Joined: March 17, 2012
Posts: 2436
Location: Colorado Mountains
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| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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Straight 50! You do realize the highest single grade recommended by VW was straight 40, which was for tropical zones durring the hot season? You also do realize that both your 20W-50 and straight 50 will be the same viscosity at 212º F, and above that the 20W-50 will likely be thicker? I hope it's at least 95º F every time you start that engine. 120º F would be better.
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If a water cooled engine cools its water with air, isn't it just an overcomplicated air cooled engine? |
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Das Dragon
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2000
Posts: 2474
Location: AZ.
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| Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:39 am Post subject: |
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I also live in AZ and I use VR1 10-30 in all three of my VWs from 1600 to 2017('61 Westy towing an old Sears trailer loaded down with camping supplies). It's been 111* the last few days here. My oil temps/pressure are normal and head temps also.
I'll be camping in Jerome in a few weeks.
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Rest In Peace HamburgerBrad, we will never forget you!
_________________________________________________________
DB3 said:
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*********'s constant over-estimation of his own importance never ceases to amaze me."
With *****, "Bullshit Happens"! |
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pshoebri
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2012
Posts: 114
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 10:13 am Post subject: Recommendations for Vancouver, B.C |
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I know there are a million posts on this already (this section is 172 pages now!) but I find them a bit overwhelming, and don't have a whole lot of time to figure this one out...
Many of the posts deal with full heat/full freezing, and I'm neither of those. Your advice and wisdom is appreciated.
I'm in Vancouver, B.C., and looking to change my oil for the winter (daily driver) It gets below freezing here, and snows a bit, but not for long periods of time.
Currently using redline 15/50.
I've noticed the van takes a few tries to start/get going now that it's getting colder, so probably time to switch to something thinner.
Recommendations of brand/weights appreciated! |
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udidwht
Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2005
Posts: 3779
Location: Seattle, WA./ HB, Ca./ Shizuoka, Japan
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| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 11:06 am Post subject: Re: Recommendations for Vancouver, B.C |
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| pshoebri wrote: |
I know there are a million posts on this already (this section is 172 pages now!) but I find them a bit overwhelming, and don't have a whole lot of time to figure this one out...
Many of the posts deal with full heat/full freezing, and I'm neither of those. Your advice and wisdom is appreciated.
I'm in Vancouver, B.C., and looking to change my oil for the winter (daily driver) It gets below freezing here, and snows a bit, but not for long periods of time.
Currently using redline 15/50.
I've noticed the van takes a few tries to start/get going now that it's getting colder, so probably time to switch to something thinner.
Recommendations of brand/weights appreciated! |
Valvoline 10w-30 VR1
_________________
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96mm Biral AA P/C's~7.8:1CR
Headflow Masters New AMC 42x36mm heads w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
73 Web Cam w/Web solids
Dual 40mm IDF Webers - LM-2 - 47.5 idles/125 mains/190 air corr./F11 tubes/28mm Vents - Float height 10.45mm/Drop 32mm
Bosch SVDA w/Pertronix module (7.5 initial 28 total @ 3400rpm)
Bosch W8CC plugs
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3 rib 002 Trans
185R14 Hankook tires |
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Bruce
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003
Posts: 17285
Location: Left coast, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Sep 20, 2014 3:54 pm Post subject: Re: Recommendations for Vancouver, B.C |
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| pshoebri wrote: |
| I'm in Vancouver, B.C., ..............I've noticed the van takes a few tries to start/get going now that it's getting colder, |
You're having trouble now??? I suspect your battery is on it's way out.
Do you know your oil operating temps? Only then can you know what's the correct oil viscosity. Either way, a 50 wt oil is the wrong oil in this climate.
Start with a 5W-30 and see what the temps are.
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| overheard at the portland Swap Meet... wrote: |
| ..... a steering wheel made from a mastadon tusk..... |
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Juanito84
Samba Member
Joined: March 17, 2012
Posts: 2436
Location: Colorado Mountains
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 9:27 am Post subject: Re: Recommendations for Vancouver, B.C |
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| pshoebri wrote: |
I know there are a million posts on this already (this section is 172 pages now!) but I find them a bit overwhelming, and don't have a whole lot of time to figure this one out...
Many of the posts deal with full heat/full freezing, and I'm neither of those. Your advice and wisdom is appreciated.
I'm in Vancouver, B.C., and looking to change my oil for the winter (daily driver) It gets below freezing here, and snows a bit, but not for long periods of time.
Currently using redline 15/50.
I've noticed the van takes a few tries to start/get going now that it's getting colder, so probably time to switch to something thinner.
Recommendations of brand/weights appreciated! |
Figure your W number depending on how cold it gets. Moderately cold, use 10W-xx. For below zero use 5W-xx. If you get well below zero use a 0W. Sounds kike 10W is fine in your case. The other number depends on your running temps and oil pressure at running temp. A xxW-30 would probably be fine. If you have an oil pressure guage and see low oil pressure then use a xxW-40 (shoot for 10psi per 1000rpm). Seems like 10W-30 may be what you are looking for.
If using 10W-30 or thinner and your engine is stock then use a high mileage (API SL certified) oil. A xxW-40 oil can be API SN certified, but dont use a xxW-30 oil than is API SN certified nor any oil marked as Energy Conserving. High performance and racing oils will all work although aren't necessary IMO unless you have a high reving engine (or strong valve springs.)
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If a water cooled engine cools its water with air, isn't it just an overcomplicated air cooled engine? |
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Danwvw
Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012
Posts: 8892
Location: Oregon Coast
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| Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:24 am Post subject: Re: Recommendations for Vancouver, B.C |
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| pshoebri wrote: |
I know there are a million posts on this already (this section is 172 pages now!) but I find them a bit overwhelming, and don't have a whole lot of time to figure this one out...
Many of the posts deal with full heat/full freezing, and I'm neither of those. Your advice and wisdom is appreciated.
I'm in Vancouver, B.C., and looking to change my oil for the winter (daily driver) It gets below freezing here, and snows a bit, but not for long periods of time.
Currently using redline 15/50.
I've noticed the van takes a few tries to start/get going now that it's getting colder, so probably time to switch to something thinner.
Recommendations of brand/weights appreciated! |
"pshoebri" I have not tried the Redline oils yet, They may be excellent! Different engines can behave different with different oils and oil weights. If your bus leaks any oil I have found Castrol 10W40 or 20W50 to be a good choice but 20W50 only if your driving inland in the summer when it's really hot. Currently here on the Oregon Coast I have been using Castrol 5W30 in the Winter and Castrol 10W40 in the summer. What is it Bug or Bus? What year is it? Type 1 engine? Does it have a oil filter? Or is your engine Water cooled? All considerations. WC engines could probably get away running 5W30 year round in BC.
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths! |
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Juanito84
Samba Member
Joined: March 17, 2012
Posts: 2436
Location: Colorado Mountains
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 8:26 pm Post subject: Re: Recommendations for Vancouver, B.C |
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| Danwvw wrote: |
| I have been using Castrol 5W30 |
Which Castrol 5W-30? The new API SN certified stuff has too little ZDDP. You need at least 800ppm phosphorus for flat tappets, like the ones in our engines, but the new SN stuff is limited to 600 to 800ppm. Just make sure it says SL and not SN.
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If a water cooled engine cools its water with air, isn't it just an overcomplicated air cooled engine? |
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Danwvw
Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012
Posts: 8892
Location: Oregon Coast
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| Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, It's API SN,SM,SL,SJ I guess this means the SN is a rating saying it does not have any Phosphorus or something? I have been adding Lucas Zink Plus Brake-in oil additive for the cam.
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