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BeetleUy
Samba Member
Joined: February 04, 2013
Posts: 156
Location: Uruguay
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 Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Juanito84 wrote: |
| BeetleUy wrote: |
| Hi, doors anyone know the % of zddp in motul 20w-50 and if it is suitable for our cars? |
Motul has a 20W-50 mineral oil that's API SF rated for cars built between 1950 and 1970. Yes it would work in a stock engine and have enough ZDDP. Likely around 800ppm phos or more.
However I'm using Motul 8100 series (which doesn't come in 20W-50) in all my vehicles. It's API SL rated and VW specified! For a performance engine, however, I'd probably go with Motul 300V racing oil. |
Do you mean motul classic?, what is the amount of zddp on it?
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VW beetle - 1986 - 1600 dp
H30/31 - SVDA
7.9:1 CR |
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Ryan Krieger
Samba Member
Joined: August 22, 2007
Posts: 80
Location: Southern CA
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| Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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Does anyone know if there's any harm in running Brad Penn 30w Break-In Oil for normal periods of time in a stock 1500 engine?
I realize it's meant for break-ins only, but I have a few quarts just sitting in the garage and was wondering if there's any reason I shouldn't use it for my next oil change.
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Savannah Beige 67/built Nov 10, 1966 |
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Juanito84
Samba Member
Joined: March 17, 2012
Posts: 2436
Location: Colorado Mountains
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| Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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| BeetleUy wrote: |
| Juanito84 wrote: |
| BeetleUy wrote: |
| Hi, doors anyone know the % of zddp in motul 20w-50 and if it is suitable for our cars? |
Motul has a 20W-50 mineral oil that's API SF rated for cars built between 1950 and 1970. Yes it would work in a stock engine and have enough ZDDP. Likely around 800ppm phos or more.
However I'm using Motul 8100 series (which doesn't come in 20W-50) in all my vehicles. It's API SL rated and VW specified! For a performance engine, however, I'd probably go with Motul 300V racing oil. |
Do you mean motul classic?, what is the amount of zddp on it? |
Yes, I'm talking about Motul Classic. It likely has around 800 phos just like 1950's through 70's oils had. Personally I feel using that stuff is a step backwards. If you want a lot of ZDDP in a Motul oil use 300V.
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If a water cooled engine cools its water with air, isn't it just an overcomplicated air cooled engine? |
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Slow 1200
Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2004
Posts: 2105
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| Posted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 5:45 am Post subject: |
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| I've been told that Motul Classic 20W50 has the right amounts of ZDDP, some engine builders really like it (doesn't come supercheap though, and 20w50 might be too thick for some peoples' taste) |
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ozzo
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2014
Posts: 201
Location: italy
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| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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What do you think of elf start?
Mineral 15w-40
Api SG CF4
Vw level 501.01- 505.00
Sg level should be good enough, right? |
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Vanapplebomb
Samba Member
Joined: November 03, 2010
Posts: 5408
Location: Holland, MI
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| Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Ryan Krieger wrote: |
Does anyone know if there's any harm in running Brad Penn 30w Break-In Oil for normal periods of time in a stock 1500 engine?
I realize it's meant for break-ins only, but I have a few quarts just sitting in the garage and was wondering if there's any reason I shouldn't use it for my next oil change. |
Don't. It isn't designed for long change intervals like you would have in daily driving. Save the break in oil for running in engines or for putting on the first couple hundred miles. After that, it's "normal" oil time.
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1800 Type 4 Berrien 295
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021 |
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cedricv
Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2008
Posts: 30
Location: brugge belguim
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| Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:12 am Post subject: |
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| Kroon oil 15w-50 semi synt racing oil... |
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MGBBob80
Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2009
Posts: 126
Location: Bremerton, WA
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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Hello all,
179 pages of great info, but I still don't know what to use for Buddy. I believe this could be information overload.
I'm currently running Valvoline VR-1 20-w50. My understanding is that it contains 1300 ppm ZDDP, which is good for our engines.
Now - for the specifics. Temperatures here run from 60 - 90F at the extreme. Usually in the 75-85 range. I have a 25 mile trip to work where I go from sea level to 800 feet and back down each way. Engine gets fully warmed up...
Engine was completely overhauled 2000 miles ago. No leaks and not burning any so I think break in went well.
Question - Is 20-50 too thick? OK? Just right? Way to thick? Inquiring minds want to know...
I realize that there are many great opinions out there and most have real merit. That being said, I'm hoping to figureboutbthe correct oil for my bus as it runs here on the island.
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Cheers,
Bob
1978 Type 2 Transporter. 2L engine (engine code GE), Fuel Injection, 4-speed manual transmission.His name is Buddy.
"I reserve the right to be better tomorrow than I am today." |
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Juanito84
Samba Member
Joined: March 17, 2012
Posts: 2436
Location: Colorado Mountains
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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| MGBBob80 wrote: |
Hello all,
179 pages of great info, but I still don't know what to use for Buddy. I believe this could be information overload.
I'm currently running Valvoline VR-1 20-w50. My understanding is that it contains 1300 ppm ZDDP, which is good for our engines.
Now - for the specifics. Temperatures here run from 60 - 90F at the extreme. Usually in the 75-85 range. I have a 25 mile trip to work where I go from sea level to 800 feet and back down each way. Engine gets fully warmed up...
Engine was completely overhauled 2000 miles ago. No leaks and not burning any so I think break in went well.
Question - Is 20-50 too thick? OK? Just right? Way to thick? Inquiring minds want to know...
I realize that there are many great opinions out there and most have real merit. That being said, I'm hoping to figureboutbthe correct oil for my bus as it runs here on the island. |
Probably not "too" thick. VW engines seem to be able to run on anything. After all, VW recommended some 5 or 6 different oil grades for your climate, with 20W-50 being the thickest.
But still, I suggest sticking an oil pressure gauge in there if you already haven't and aim for 10psi for every 1,000RPM. Your bearings could be very worn and need thick oil. Or your engine may run on the hotter side and need thicker oil. In any event an oil pressure gauge is going to give you a better guide on which oil grade to use than anyone' guess.
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If a water cooled engine cools its water with air, isn't it just an overcomplicated air cooled engine? |
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spize909
Samba Member
Joined: February 26, 2010
Posts: 349
Location: Upland CA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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I may not have seen it in the 178 pages so if it was brought up already, I apologize.
Does anybody use Quaker State Defy Synthetic Blend?
Quaker State 10W30 Defy, API SL synthetic blend (lab tested 2012)
Silicon = 3 ppm (anti-foaming agent in new oil, but in used oil, certain gasket materials and dirt can also add to this number)
Boron = 170 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Magnesium = 8 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Calcium = 2652 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Barium = 0 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Total detergent/dispersant (anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge) = 2830 ppm
Zinc = 1221 ppm (anti-wear)
Phos = 955 ppm (anti-wear)
Moly = 99 ppm (anti-wear)
Total anti-wear = 2275 ppm
Potassium = 4 ppm (anti-freeze corrosion inhibitor)
Sodium = 0 ppm (anti-freeze corrosion inhibitor)
TBN = 6.5 (Total Base Number is an acid neutralizer to prevent corrosion. Most gasoline engine motor oils start with TBN around 8 or 9. And in use, this becomes depleted over time as mileage accumulates)
Viscosity (cSt at 100*C) = 11.7 (cSt range for SAE 30 is 9.3 to 12.4) And cSt (centistokes) in general terms, represents an oil’s thickness |
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Juanito84
Samba Member
Joined: March 17, 2012
Posts: 2436
Location: Colorado Mountains
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| Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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| spize909 wrote: |
I may not have seen it in the 178 pages so if it was brought up already, I apologize.
Does anybody use Quaker State Defy Synthetic Blend?
Quaker State 10W30 Defy, API SL synthetic blend (lab tested 2012)
Silicon = 3 ppm (anti-foaming agent in new oil, but in used oil, certain gasket materials and dirt can also add to this number)
Boron = 170 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Magnesium = 8 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Calcium = 2652 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Barium = 0 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Total detergent/dispersant (anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge) = 2830 ppm
Zinc = 1221 ppm (anti-wear)
Phos = 955 ppm (anti-wear)
Moly = 99 ppm (anti-wear)
Total anti-wear = 2275 ppm
Potassium = 4 ppm (anti-freeze corrosion inhibitor)
Sodium = 0 ppm (anti-freeze corrosion inhibitor)
TBN = 6.5 (Total Base Number is an acid neutralizer to prevent corrosion. Most gasoline engine motor oils start with TBN around 8 or 9. And in use, this becomes depleted over time as mileage accumulates)
Viscosity (cSt at 100*C) = 11.7 (cSt range for SAE 30 is 9.3 to 12.4) And cSt (centistokes) in general terms, represents an oil’s thickness |
Can you still get it in API SL? If so, that's fine for any "stock" engine. But if it's API SM or SN most would feel that it'll be shy on zinc and phos.
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If a water cooled engine cools its water with air, isn't it just an overcomplicated air cooled engine? |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50337
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| Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 9:38 am Post subject: |
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| Juanito84 wrote: |
| Can you still get it in API SL? If so, that's fine for any "stock" engine. But if it's API SM or SN most would feel that it'll be shy on zinc and phos. |
There are still "high mileage" oils out there that meet the SL spec for phosphorus/zinc. |
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glutamodo 
The Android
Joined: July 13, 2004
Posts: 26309
Location: Douglas, WY
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| Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 9:50 am Post subject: |
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Defy has been mentioned before in this thread a couple of times (if you use the "search this topic" box at the top left of every page, you'll find them)
And yes, it is SL. The Defy label doesn't even mention SM or SN, just that it meets or exceeds the requirements of SL.
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Juanito84
Samba Member
Joined: March 17, 2012
Posts: 2436
Location: Colorado Mountains
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| Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 11:37 am Post subject: |
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Ok, I see.
It's also one of those "meets or exceeds" oils which is a loop-hole term meaning it doesn't actually follow the API spec it says it does. Whenever an oil truely follows an API spec it has the starburst "API certified" lable on it.
But yes, this oil is perfectly fine for an realatively "stock" engine.
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If a water cooled engine cools its water with air, isn't it just an overcomplicated air cooled engine? |
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R-Baja
Samba Member
Joined: September 22, 2008
Posts: 164
Location: Out West
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| Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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| It is curious how Brad Penn SAE 30 Break In Oil has 1020 ppm Z & P yet their Grade 1 Semi Synthetic oils have 1500 Z and 1300 P. |
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vwsb74
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 1201
Location: socal
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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I have udo tool lifter and fk10 cam. Do I need hi zinc oil or I can use any synthetic oil?thanks
_________________
74 super beetle
2011 ford explorer traded
2010 mazda 3 hatchback
2014 Honda odyssey
2180cc 48IDA clone
Xr310 cam =171hp@6k rpm sold so as the car😢 |
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vwracerdave
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004
Posts: 15303
Location: Deep in the 405
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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| vwsb74 wrote: |
| I have udo tool lifter and fk10 cam. Do I need hi zinc oil or I can use any synthetic oil?thanks |
What does Udo say to use with his lifters?
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1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
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Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos |
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vwsb74
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 1201
Location: socal
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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| vwracerdave wrote: |
| vwsb74 wrote: |
| I have udo tool lifter and fk10 cam. Do I need hi zinc oil or I can use any synthetic oil?thanks |
What does Udo say to use with his lifters? |
I don't know that's why I'm asking . I bought this set from Allan_u long time ago.
_________________
74 super beetle
2011 ford explorer traded
2010 mazda 3 hatchback
2014 Honda odyssey
2180cc 48IDA clone
Xr310 cam =171hp@6k rpm sold so as the car😢 |
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26781
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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| R-Baja wrote: |
| It is curious how Brad Penn SAE 30 Break In Oil has 1020 ppm Z & P yet their Grade 1 Semi Synthetic oils have 1500 Z and 1300 P. |
just looking at the amount of P and SN elements in the oil does not tell the whole story. Many additives are sacrificial, meaning they get used up over time, so oil for shorter term use will have less, and oil designed for LONG change intervals will have higher percentages.
As for what the numbers actually mean from the analysis, you can only guess. It's not as simple as taking elements and mixing them together, there's different kinds of molecules, PH, different types of base oil.
As a general rule the detergent and anti-oxidant(buffer) additives and the Ep additives are a balance act, as too much buffer/detergent and the EP additives won't work. Not enough buffer/detergent and there can be corrosion problems or odd build-up.
In recent news the diesel oils are now required to be able to hold(suspend) more carbon then ever before, and that's kinda cool, but how they DO that might cause problems in other areas.
For instance I let my VR1 go a bit too long last year and when I changed it the carbon was just starting to settle out. interesting since I haven't seen that happen in YEARS, but 10+ years ago that could be a common sight. Modern oils have a LOT of detergent and buffers and stuff in there so you rarely see it anymore.
but anyway, hopefully that explains why break-in oil will have low numbers. Your not trying to dissolve gunk and hold carbon, as this is a brand new clean engine! more like hopefully make some deposits!! |
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WesleyGarrard
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2007
Posts: 541
Location: Pekin, Il
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| Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:01 am Post subject: |
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I do not know if this has been posted, but I have found a forum post where someone had sent out 40 different oils to an independent lab for analysis. I think it could be a big help as it does not rely on manufacturer claims, but third party scrutiny.
http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=35836 |
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