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First "long" trip in my 73 Thing
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lewis71bug
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 4:50 am    Post subject: First "long" trip in my 73 Thing Reply with quote

I took my family on our first long (150 miles round trip) trip yesterday. Overall, the Thing ran great, but we did have a few issues.

It came a downpour on the way down and we discovered that the seal along the top of the windshield frame needs to be replaced Laughing . We also need some kind of seal along the sides of the windshield to make it seal along the front side windows better. We got a little wet, but my wife is a good sport! Our girls in the back thought it was funny, but they were dry!

I turned on the heat to keep the windshield from fogging up, but I need to figure out how to hook up the diverter for the windshield. I reached in the vent by the drivers right foot and found the diverter (I think), but couldn't get it positioned to send the most air to the windshield. Anyone have pictures or a an explanation of how this is all supposed to work? The slide lever in the glovebox area is there, but it's not connected to anything.

We stopped about midway down to our destination and smelled something hot. I had just changed the front wheel bearings and felt all four hubcaps and the drivers side front was hot (steaming hot). Thinking it might be the bearings, I jacked up the front and reseated the bearings and made sure the wheel spun free. There was a slight rub from the break shoes so I removed the drum and repositioned the shoes and put it all back together and made sure it spun free again with no rubbing and re-adjusted the shoes until the tire just spun free with no rubbing. I may need to get that drum turned. I did all this in about 15 minutes, so I feel pretty good! My children were itching to go, though! I'll need to repack those bearings before I drive it again.

We started off again and I stopped again after about 20 minutes to check for heat from that wheel. I think I fixed it.

The rest of the trip was uneventful and the family had a great time.

The Thing used about 7 gallons of gas total on the trip, about 21mpg. With the stops and sitting idling for long periods, I guess that's about average and not too bad. I'm not sure I have the carb adjusted 100% (it's a H30/31 paired with a 009 distributor) but doesn't seem to be running too rich, maybe idling a bit too high (it's idling around 1050 right now, but sounds better there than at 850-900).

Speed wise, I stayed at about 65 most of the way, and noticed that getting above 70 would be an effort. Would this be because this is a singleport? I haven't checked compression on the engine yet. I'd also like to know what would be better distributor for the H30/31, single vacuum type. I know I got better performance on my beetle when I switched to an svda distributor.

Wayne
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radioman
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good story.
Speedwise: 1. The Thing , from an aerodynamic standpoint, is not unlike a refrigerator box. 2. The Thing weighs a lot more than a Bug. 3. The Thing is geared lower on purpose. Ergo: 65 top, stock, is about right.
Great story about your "roadside repair" abilities. Cool
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lewis71bug
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a picture that shows the problem I'm having with my front side curtains:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


This was taken by me sitting in the drivers seat. The top part of the side curtain is pushed out away from the side of the winshield frame. I tried some weather stripping (stuff you can but at the FLAPS, one sided adhesive), but it makes the problem worse. Is there a way to make the top part seal against the windshield frame better so rain can't blow in, or is this normal?
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npconnor
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think stock Things have a top speed of 68 or so MPH, so you seem to be on track right there.

That is an excellent way to find out what requires attention. Although, I doubt I'd do that with my Thing... unless I had someone behind me in case I became stranded Embarassed

Oh wait, who am I kidding? Things never break down! Wink
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GSD_Master
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have the same problem with my side curtains. The frame for my soft top is slightly bent above the windows. This creates extra stress on the windshield frame, causing it to lean back more than it is supposed to. I think if everything was perfect the windows would seal just fine.
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lewis71bug
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The frame and top are new and the front side curtains are new. Everything lines up perfectly, it's just that the side curtains are pushed out or lean out towards the top. They are against the windshield frame at the bottom. I suppose I could try to bend them in towards the top, but hate to do that with them being new if there is some other way.
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s_wypych
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have the same problem with my front drivers window. Currently have it on with a hard top, not sure if I will have the same problem when I get my soft top on though. I don't want to try and bend it because it is a glass window. Looking for a solution as well......
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FreakCitySF
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have the same exact problem.

The fix seems that the windshield needs to be pushed straight up.

Like putting shims where the windshield bolts to the body, not the hood, might help.

But I havent done this. The windshield appears to be the right angle , its just needs to be taller.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lewis71bug wrote:
Here's a picture that shows the problem I'm having with my front side curtains:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


This was taken by me sitting in the drivers seat. The top part of the side curtain is pushed out away from the side of the winshield frame. I tried some weather stripping (stuff you can but at the FLAPS, one sided adhesive), but it makes the problem worse. Is there a way to make the top part seal against the windshield frame better so rain can't blow in, or is this normal?


My Thing has a piece of aluminum in an L shape from the top of the winshield lip all the way down, when you close the door, the window get in between the frame lip and the aluminum frame. I can drive +70mph in the rain or any kind of weather and it doesn't leak any water inside or any air. I will post picture later today when I find my camera.

Thanks
Uray
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lewis71bug
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

urayohan wrote:

My Thing has a piece of aluminum in an L shape from the top of the winshield lip all the way down, when you close the door, the window get in between the frame lip and the aluminum frame. I can drive +70mph in the rain or any kind of weather and it doesn't leak any water inside or any air. I will post picture later today when I find my camera.

Thanks
Uray


Can you post a picture of this?

Thanks,

Wayne
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lewis71bug
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What a long evening! I pulled both front tires and drums to figure out why the driver side had gotten so hot. I still don't know for sure, but I had to replace the bearings (I had just changed them, but the heat seems to have damaged them) and changed the brakes while I was in there. For good measure, I changed the wheel cylinders and had the drums turned. After putting everything back together and bleeding both sides, I took it for a test drive and when I got back, the driver side was too hot to touch (I had only driven about 2 miles). After it cooled, I pulled it apart again and now I'm stumped. I don't see any indication of anything rubbing, no leaks (other than runny grease that had been overheated). Would a faulty soft brake line cause this? Anyway to test the master cylinder to see if it is sticking and causing pressure to be held on the one tire?

The only thing I can come up with is the brakes on the driver front side are sticking (from the soft line or the master cylinder). I'll replace the soft line and if that doesn't fix it, the master cylinder is next. Anything else I should look at? Anyone ever experience this and have it be something else?
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xeno
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you also replace the bearing race? Did you pack the bearings good?

X
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kubelmann
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The way you describe the heat builds, makes me believe that you have a brake hang up problem and not bearing related. I tend to replace all my VW brake lines with braided stainless steel, teflon lined parts. Makes a world of difference.
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lewis71bug
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I replaced the bearings (both sides) I did replace the races and grease seals. I packed them very well. I have now replaced ALL brake hardware (all hard and rubber lines, master cylinder, wheel cylinders, etc.). I drove it for about 2 miles last night and started hearing a brake squeel (couldn't tell which side but definitely front). I stopped and felt the hub on both sides, warm but not hot. I jacked up the front and both drums had a little play. I tightened both axle nuts and drove again. I checked for play again after another few miles and the driver side seemed to have some play again. I tightened the nut some more and tested again. So far, so good, but I still get some brake squeel when making tight right hand turns. I don't understand what is causing the brake noise or why the drums kept (or keep) lossening up. I think this was my initial problem and not the brakes now. Any ideas or suggestions?
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74 Thing
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you allowing the proper amount of endplay in the drum when tightening so that when the bearings heat up and expand they have room. I believe off hand that the Bently Manual has the specs. You can alos just use the old method of tightening the spingle nut while spinning the drum and stop when you can just move the washer side to side with a screwdriver.

It appears from your description that you may be tightening the nut down too much and not allowing for that play-I may be wrong though.

Good luck.
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dan macmillan
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 4:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lewis71bug wrote:
When I replaced the bearings (both sides) I did replace the races and grease seals. I packed them very well. I have now replaced ALL brake hardware (all hard and rubber lines, master cylinder, wheel cylinders, etc.). I drove it for about 2 miles last night and started hearing a brake squeel (couldn't tell which side but definitely front). I stopped and felt the hub on both sides, warm but not hot. I jacked up the front and both drums had a little play. I tightened both axle nuts and drove again. I checked for play again after another few miles and the driver side seemed to have some play again. I tightened the nut some more and tested again. So far, so good, but I still get some brake squeel when making tight right hand turns. I don't understand what is causing the brake noise or why the drums kept (or keep) lossening up. I think this was my initial problem and not the brakes now. Any ideas or suggestions?


Make sure your races are properly seated in the drums/rotors.
When repacking the bearings do not completely pack the area between the inner and outer bearings. Pack each bearing so that the space between the rollers is well packed. Wipe a coat of grease on the outside of the rollers and on the races and a little bit between the races.

To install the drums/rotors gently snug down the bearing nut to approx 10 ft/lbs torque while rotating the drum/rotor. Back off the nut then snug it up and lock the pinchbolt. In the case of cotterpins, snug it till the next cotterpin hole aligns. There is nothing wrong with a SLIGHT amount of axial play in the bearing. It is far better than being over tight.

The squeel is usually caused by vibration from the shoes on the backing plates. Apply never-seize compound to the 6 shoe contact points on the backing plate, where the wheel cylinder push points contact the shoes and any other points of contact that move.

Check your flex hoses for a restriction
Check your brake adjustment

If it was your master it would be affecting both front wheels unless one wheel is adjusted a bit too tight.
Spin the front wheels, apply the brakes til they both stop release the pedal and make sure they both completely release.

Remember your front brakes do approx 80 to 90% of the braking. Energy cannot be destroyed it can only change form. The kinetic energy of the vehice is transformed into heat.

The following is taken from
http://www.firerescue1.com/Columnists/drivetosurvive/articles/103828/
Any moving vehicle that is driving down the road has “kinetic energy.”
Drivers must remember that kinetic energy can’t just be destroyed; it has to be converted into a different type of energy. The question is, “Where does it go?” About 99 percent of the time the kinetic energy of your vehicle is converted into heat energy. This conversion takes place when the operator applies the brakes on the truck. The brake pads rub against the brake drums or discs and create tremendous amounts of heat energy. This essentially burns off the kinetic energy of the vehicle. As this energy is burned off, the vehicle can slow down and eventually come to a stop.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2007 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that you don't want to have excessive torque on the adjustment nut. You will find yourself on the side of a freeway broken down with a bearing failure. I have always done what Dan does after packing them. I will put about 10 lbs of torque on the nut then spin the drum. I then back it off to where I am close to 0 ft lbs on the nut. You can't tighten the nut to remove all the play. Remember that these cars are 30-40 years old and are going to have some wear on the spindels where the bearings ride. A little play after adjusting the bearing is perfectly fine.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lewis71bug wrote:
Here's a picture that shows the problem I'm having with my front side curtains:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


This was taken by me sitting in the drivers seat. The top part of the side curtain is pushed out away from the side of the winshield frame. I tried some weather stripping (stuff you can but at the FLAPS, one sided adhesive), but it makes the problem worse. Is there a way to make the top part seal against the windshield frame better so rain can't blow in, or is this normal?


I had this same problem on mine. I opened the door and pulled the top of the curtain in a few times, and it seemed to close the gap.
I don't know if this is the correct fix for the problem, but i don't have a problem with leakage now Wink
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lewis71bug
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I figured out my hub/bearing problem. Towel Rail had stated before I purchased my Thing that the front beam had been replaced with a beetle beam. I didn't know what year, but I found out this weekend. The spindles on my thing are from a 65-67 beetle, and the bearing I had were from a newer model, so the inner bearings ID was too large, allowing the hubs to move on the inside (which would make the break squeal and worse!). Now I know to make sure about the bearings if I ever have to change them out again!

Wayne
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kubelmann
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yowza the bearing size is way different!! I just located a complete Thing front end drum to drum and am about to get a new complete Thing that will be a parts car or a tube frame off road resto. Either eay I should have parts to make your beam correct...
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