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usariemen
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 Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 4:35 pm Post subject: Vert semaphore question |
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Hello
Well, someone just wrote "there are no silly questions".
Here might be one.
As known there where installed in split verts the same ribbed semaphores as in the split sedans. (Except a small number of a complete metal surrounded kind in some split verts.)
Then later in the oval times there where the smooth semaphores and in verts we find the special measurement vert semaphores that are differend from the sedan ones. If someone tries to put a sedan semaphore into a oval vert it would not fit.
So my question is: What kind of semaphores where installed in "zwitter" and early oval verts during 1953? In that year the sedans still got the ribbed ones. Many know just of smooth ones in ovals but it is a fact that they got ribbed ones in the first months. I can hardly immagine VW kept on with the ribbed ones in the sedans while the verts already got smooth ones. On the other hand the ribbed ones would not fit into a oval dash verts body. So how was that handled?
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twinwindows
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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Convertibles had BOX`d semaphores till 1953 witch is the zwitter year, They were the same semaphore from a hard top, Mid 53 the convertible body came with the semaphore pocket built right into the body or in other words they dropped the box. Those year convertible came with their own kind of semaphore that will not fit a hard top. they were a bit longer and very thin when compared to a hard top semaphore here are some pictures where you can tell the difference in the two.
Boxed
"Smooth sides"
Semphore on top is an early vert semaphore, the bottom is the later version mid 53-60
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Splitdog
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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Nicely presented lesson. Right on.
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usariemen
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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Hello
Yeah, thanks. But that "lesson" is the common knowlege.
I know the boxes, and I know the differences between vert and sedan sems.
What I asked was how exactely it was handled during 10-1952 to the end of 1953. In this time the sedans still got the ribbed ones. See pics.
Have the verts got already the smoth vert semaphores while the sedans still where equipped with the ribbed ones?
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twinwindows
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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If it had boxes they had ribbed.. easy as that. they never made a semaphore that was ribbed ment to go on a smooth side vert.
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usariemen
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:55 am Post subject: |
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So, that means they started with smooth sems right from the first oval dash vert in 10-1952 and kept the ribbed ones in the sedans for many more months?
This just seems strange compared their usual bevavement when changes where done at the cars.
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IN2VWS
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:28 am Post subject: |
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In the Zwitter spare parts manual, it only shows one type of semaphore, the same for verts and sedans.
....and this is from a April 1954 parts manual. It says the smooth type semaphores were from body No. 508701, 1st Jan. 1954 for sedans.
And in a June 1956 parts manual, it says smooth type semaphores from body No. 15997, Jan 1954 for verts.
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johnshenry 
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 8:42 am Post subject: |
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| twinwindowsJHC wrote: |
Semphore on top is an early vert semaphore, the bottom is the later version mid 53-60
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Is it? You said that the early 'vert sem was the same as the sedan sem, and that is not a sedan sem. That is the kind with the flat lenses and wraparound cover, most agree those were used on other cars and not VW Beetles.
???
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Splitdog
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 11:35 am Post subject: |
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| usariemen wrote: |
So, that means they started with smooth sems right from the first oval dash vert in 10-1952 and kept the ribbed ones in the sedans for many more months?
This just seems strange compared their usual bevavement when changes where done at the cars. |
Shit, that's common knowledge. 
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usariemen
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Is it? You said that the early 'vert sem was the same as the sedan sem, and that is not a sedan sem. That is the kind with the flat lenses and wraparound cover, most agree those were used on other cars and not VW Beetles.
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You are right. Such a kind is usually not found on a VW but it is quite prooved that on a number of split verts those where originally used by Karmann. But at least that was not the question here.
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twinwindows
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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| johnshenry wrote: |
| Is it? You said that the early 'vert sem was the same as the sedan sem, and that is not a sedan sem. That is the kind with the flat lenses and wraparound cover, most agree those were used on other cars and not VW Beetles.??? |
Many if not all the early pre 53 verts I have worked on had sedan semaphores of that period, I never ran into a car with the ones in the picture but here is a little info I found.
This is a quote from Klaus Jacobsen` website www.kabriolett.com
Karmann Semaphores.
It has been the belief of many VW experts (including myself) that the semaphore used on the early 49-52 Karmanns was the same as the one used on the sedan. But maybe this was not the case, atleast there is now proff that some Karmanns had a special semaphore.
This special semaphore had the same back as the sedan semaphore but the arm is different. The metal on the arm goes all the way around the lens. It had 2 screws just like the sedan semaphore of that period
********************************************************
Check that page out and feel free to post, those purists will eat you alive!
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Rich's 50
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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Mine look like that on the 50 vert
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twinwindows
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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Ahh shaaadup you!
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IN2VWS
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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| twinwindowsJHC wrote: |
This is a quote from Klaus Jacobsen` website www.kabriolett.com
Karmann Semaphores.
It has been the belief of many VW experts (including myself) that the semaphore used on the early 49-52 Karmanns was the same as the one used on the sedan. But maybe this was not the case, atleast there is now proff that some Karmanns had a special semaphore.
This special semaphore had the same back as the sedan semaphore but the arm is different. The metal on the arm goes all the way around the lens. It had 2 screws just like the sedan semaphore of that period
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I couldn't find the page you are refering to on that site.....what is the proof that he speaks of?
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Suboval
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twinwindows
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you......
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IN2VWS
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the link.
I am sorry, but that is not proof to me. To me, proof would include some sort of documentation.
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johnshenry
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| twinwindowsJHC wrote: |
| johnshenry wrote: |
| Is it? You said that the early 'vert sem was the same as the sedan sem, and that is not a sedan sem. That is the kind with the flat lenses and wraparound cover, most agree those were used on other cars and not VW Beetles.??? |
Many if not all the early pre 53 verts I have worked on had sedan semaphores of that period, I never ran into a car with the ones in the picture but here is a little info I found.
This is a quote from Klaus Jacobsen` website www.kabriolett.com
Karmann Semaphores.
It has been the belief of many VW experts (including myself) that the semaphore used on the early 49-52 Karmanns was the same as the one used on the sedan. But maybe this was not the case, atleast there is now proff that some Karmanns had a special semaphore.
This special semaphore had the same back as the sedan semaphore but the arm is different. The metal on the arm goes all the way around the lens. It had 2 screws just like the sedan semaphore of that period
********************************************************
Check that page out and feel free to post, those purists will eat you alive! |
I still don't think that VW used them. I have seen no official VW documentation that shows them. None of the part or service manuals I have do. That pic could just be of an older replacement, doesn't mean anything. The lenses were much simpler in those, so people probably favored them. Just my theory.
My '50 11G came with a set (restorer presumably used them) of those wrap arounds. I sold them and now have the "correct" kind...
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twinwindows
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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| johnshenry wrote: |
| My '50 11G came with a set (restorer presumably used them) of those wrap arounds. I sold them and now have the "correct" kind... |
Good thinking John, cos the ones you sold belong on a 50 convertible
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Rich's 50
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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| twinwindowsJHC wrote: |
| johnshenry wrote: |
| My '50 11G came with a set (restorer presumably used them) of those wrap arounds. I sold them and now have the "correct" kind... |
Good thinking John, cos the ones you sold belong on a 50 convertible |
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