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Elwood
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glasser your Buggy is fucking awesom. Wish mine was gonna look that good.

Anyway, I have my cage almost done as it was being done by someone else, I did get to bend some of the tube for it though using a real bender, and yeah it wasn't difficult or anything, but it need to be bolted down to work and the layout stuff seemed kinda tricky. All in all I am inspired by doing this and really apreciate your posting this as a possibilty Joecoolcustoms. thank you.
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WilliamA
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A couple guys have asked me to post pics of our "tubing bender". Here ya go:

Here's the bad boy that gets such a drubbing in all the forums. It's a simple schedule 40 plumbing pipe bender I got from Northern Tool and equipment for about $75 bucks. The whoopin these things take is a bit unfair, since they were designed only for bending plumbing pipe and do a good job of that. This one has a 12 ton hydraulic ram and came with 5 sets of dies. I've only used the 1 1/2 and 1" dies, so I can't say how it will work with other sizes. Keep in mind that plumbing pipe is sized by ID and tubing is by OD (or is it the other way around?) so the die labels will be different than the tubing. For example, I use the 1 1/2 inch plumbing die to bend 1 1/4 inch tubing (or the other way around. I can't remember.) The main thing is to have the die fit snug on the tubing or it won't work.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Here is how I modified it to do nice radius bends out to (and a bit past) 90 degrees. If you want 130 or 160 degree bends, bend two and weld them together. You can see the roller wheels laying on the ground in front of the bender. I don't use these. The "shoes" I made to replace the roller wheels are what makes the thing work. I took a piece of tubing the size I wanted to bend, slit it in half and welded the smaller cross tubing to it. I slip that over the pins that hold the roller wheels on and that's the whole upgrade. When you load the bender, you want to make sure that your tubing sticks out past the outside edge of the shoe. If you have the tubing ends too close to the pivot of the shoe, as it bends up it will pull past the pivot and hit you right between the eyes. (Don't ask me how I know). Be careful and keep your head back from the path of trajectory.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Here's a side shot of the "shoes". I used tubing the same size as the tubing I wanted to bend. When I put the first piece of tubing to bend into the bender and pumped it up, it spread the open shoes to accomodate the outside diameter of the same tubing, making a nice tight fit. I suspect that if you went up one size of tubing and made the shoes, it would still work. My shoes are pretty sloppy now from lots of bending and it still works well.
Assuming you don't have to slit the tubing with a hacksaw, which takes awhile, total build time is about 10 minutes and costs about $2.00 to do.
As far as specifications, you want the inside of the shoe to be pretty close to the die as it comes up through a bend. My shoe ends pass within a 1/4 inch of the die. As far as friction goes, longer is better I think. The only drawback to this bender is that it's slow (hand pump) and the piece you're bending needs to be quite a bit longer than the bend. About 10 inches on either side of the die. I've actually gotten used to it and don't waste much tubing anymore as I start on the large pieces and work to the small. I suppose you could put a scale on the side of the bender so that you knew pretty close how many degrees the bend was at, but I just use a steel rule set on the top of the tubing I'm bending and may do a couple passes to get it right. Yes, you can put a bent piece back in and go more with it. That works as well.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Here's a top view of the bender loaded for a bend. What makes it work when the roller wheels don't is the stiction (friction) of the shoes. As the piece comes up into the die, the shoes hold the tubing and generate a large amount of friction, which prevents the tubing from pulling up off the die at the center of the bend. It's the same principle of an exhaust tubing bender. (that's where I got the idea from. Looking at an exhaust bender)
If the tubing can't easily slide on the wheels, it puts considerable extension pressure on the tubing and forces it to stay tight to the die as you pump it up. It works amazingly well. Keep in mind that I only use one kind of tubing: 11 gauge ERW in 1 1/25 OD. I have used it with 1/5 OD ERW, but 1.5 weighs almost twice as much per foot as 1/25. Plus, the smaller diameter stuff costs less.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Those of you who followed the mid-engine build thread may be surprised to know that this is the bender we used to make this car. Start to finish. The bender isn't perfect by a long shot. You have to be patient and learn it's strengths and weaknesses, but it' was under $100 bucks and I've no doubt there's a lot of cars left in it. If I had a pile of cash, I'd get a better one, but I don't think it would do a better job, just faster.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
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joescoolcustoms Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a saying from the area I come from, "poor men have poor ways".

I was after the same "stiction" that you were WilliamA. Except I went about it Backasswards. I like your modification better than mine. It allows you to see the apex of the bend to align it exactly where my mod hides the apex. I think yours would be twice as quick as mine also.

Here is a shot of my shoe laying next to a piece of kinked tubing that sparked the "poor way" idea.
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Here is a picture of the last cage I bent using this down trodden bender:
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Here is a picture of my HF Kinker mounted to a small bench that I can move around the floor so as to handel the main hoops. The top of the bender is about 5 feet off of the floor. (The back side of this bench is a home made screw press for pressing gear stacks and bearings, more "poor man ways" equipment) I like this feature better than the expensive benders because I have gravity on my side when bending the main hoops. The expensive benders work on the horizontal so some how one has to hold the hoop horizontal while bending. My hoop just hangs vertical. I also use two angle finders to hit the bend angle exact.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
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Elwood
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had yet another thought on this after seeing WilliamA's shoe mod.

Here it goes, if one where to use the Joescoolcustoms shoe mod but not on center, say off to one side about 45 degrees and then slide th bent 90 degree tubing over half way, it might be possible to go past 90 and hit 135 or close to it. This would ofcourse involve combining both of your mods into one unit with some variation.

Sorry about this but my mind never stops with this sorta thing. I can't help it.
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manxfwin
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:13 pm    Post subject: Roll Cage Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

HD Squared bender using 1 5/8" DOM tubing.Alot of measuring and then some more measuring. Laughing
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gr8cobbler
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've got the HF model as well and thought I may have been too cheap again, you folks have given me new hope. I'll probably pay for my bender education with lots of extra material that doesn't quite fit.....

I'm really impressed and inspired by the work presented here. You guys set a high bar so to speak Laughing
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Elwood
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now I have done it. I went out and bought one.

Figure I can use it for alot of things, not to mention that I am inspired to do other mods to it as well and see what I can acomplish.

I am gonna go with Joescoolcustoms shoe method for 1 3/4" tube first mainly cus I have the perfect pieces to make one. then I'll do the WilliamA shoes for the other sizes and probably eventually for the 1 3/4" tube as well.

I won't be bending any tube any time soon as my current projects cage is only in need of full welding now, but there will be other projects eventually.

Thanks guys.

manxfwin
Did your bender require some modification or it a real bender ?
Reason I ask is you said HD does that refer to Home Depot ?

Also nice buggy by the way.

Oh yeah, one more thing I noticed. theres these little pins on the back side of it and what they are for even though they don't tell you this, is you can lay this thing down on it's side incase you have to bend something that will go beyond the table your working with. I think I would cut some blocks of wood to support the tube at the same level of the dies but either way it can be useful info incase others needed to know.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Check this thread out:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?p=8704027
Theres some cool shit built on the HF Bender including some mention of a trick to 180 degree bends.


Last edited by Elwood on Sun Sep 21, 2008 5:12 pm; edited 3 times in total
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manxfwin
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 7:50 pm    Post subject: Roll Cage Reply with quote

My error,should have read JD Squared(Johnson City,Tenn.)model 300.Thanks,it seems like they are never completed but mine is getting close with the addition of a 1776 this spring.Put about a 1,000 miles on it and no problems.
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MURZI
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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

allright who wants to make a mint??? can someone mass produce the shoes for the HF bender?? I will take my shoes in 1.5"....thank you.
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WilliamA
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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Murzi,
PM me your snail mail address and I'll mail you out a set. The shoes are free, but the large-brain thought process (took me about 4 minutes and half a good beer) will cost you $1,946,367.23. (It was a REALLY good beer.)
You can send me a check. I'm tired of all the big companies ripping off my ideas..... (You know that "Hard Drive thingy? Yeah....that was mine. (Let's see....take this ABA Album, spin it up to 50 million RPMs, add a scriber over here and then.....Minus the research and development of course, but that's the easy part....but the idea was mine....Bastards......)
Bill
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kbwakesk8
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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My friend used the HF bender works good takes patients an practice

i just used my speedway motors bender like the one on ebay with the 7" radius to build the car bellow takes less patients and practice to use.

this is my bender
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to build this car
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By kbwakesk8 at 2009-03-26

7" radius is a big radius that is why I will be buying a JD stile bender so i can bend smaller radius 4.5" for 1.5"
just my 2 cents
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ttemple
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking of roll cages. Anybody try one of these Baja prefabs?

http://www.mooreparts.com/store/product/5478/AC800210%2A/


How much modification was involved and what did you mount the rear supports to?
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ttemple
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 5:28 am    Post subject: Re: Roll Cage Reply with quote

manxfwin wrote:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

HD Squared bender using 1 5/8" DOM tubing.Alot of measuring and then some more measuring. Laughing



Cool. Do you have a schematic with measurements that you would share?
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

LowBuck Tools bender. 1.5" die. Works great, but does fairly soft radius bends (7") and will not go past 90 degrees.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

I bought a HF bender first, got frustrated and walked away...I am going to revisit some of the mods to the dies for that bender suggested here, and use that one to bend up some accessories for the car next fall.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not to dig this back up, but does anyone know how one of these benders may work on exhaust tubing?
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GTBRADLEY
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KINK, KINK!! Laughing
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use the Pro-Tools HMP-200 bender and it does a quick, high quality and accurate job. I use a 5" CLR die to match the windshield frame radius. Quality tools make the job much easier.

I built this cage in about 2 hours:

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Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

This cage took about 1 1/2 hours.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been playing with the HF "kinker" pipe bender and tried both mods, the strap and the sticky shoes without success using 1.25" .095 DOM and 1.25 EWR 0.120.

The bends were fair, but there was some kinkage and uglyiness.

I was playing with some schedule 40 black pipe to evaluate whether or not the darn thing worked at all. There were small imprints where the rollers pressed into the pipe when making 90 degree bends.

So that brings me to the question:
Could I build a cage from 1.25 10 gauge (.0145" thick) tubing and have it act like schedule 40 pipe?
I would pay a weight penalty but it would be no more than 50 lbs for the entire cage.

Reference notes:
Schedule 40 pipe
1" nominal is 1.315" diameter with wall thickness of 0.14 ~ 10 gauge weight 1.768 lbs/ft

1 1/4" nominal is 1.660" diameter with wall thickness of 0.145 ~ 9 gauge weight 2.272 lbs/ft


Thanks, Jeff
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didget69
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

heywebonya wrote:
I have been playing with the HF "kinker" pipe bender and tried both mods, the strap and the sticky shoes without success using 1.25" .095 DOM and 1.25 EWR 0.120.

The bends were fair, but there was some kinkage and uglyiness.

I was playing with some schedule 40 black pipe to evaluate whether or not the darn thing worked at all. There were small imprints where the rollers pressed into the pipe when making 90 degree bends.

So that brings me to the question:
Could I build a cage from 1.25 10 gauge (.0145" thick) tubing and have it act like schedule 40 pipe?
I would pay a weight penalty but it would be no more than 50 lbs for the entire cage.

Reference notes:
Schedule 40 pipe
1" nominal is 1.315" diameter with wall thickness of 0.14 ~ 10 gauge weight 1.768 lbs/ft

1 1/4" nominal is 1.660" diameter with wall thickness of 0.145 ~ 9 gauge weight 2.272 lbs/ft


Thanks, Jeff


Jeff... not to sound like a condescending smartuss here, but you can do anything you set your mind to. Wink

That being said, many people have used the 'Shoes in the HF Tubing Kinker trick' - and been successful. One thing I do recall being mentioned is that the tubing needs to be clean & slick so that it doesn't bind up in the shoes. The Shoes ALSO need to be clean & slick - if I recall correctly, didn't WilliamA or joecoolcustoms mentioned in the past that the tubing needs to be able to slide in the shoes?

bryan
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TYPO........1.25 10 gauge (.0145" thick) tubing. What you typed is only 14 Thousandths of an inch. 10 Gage is 140 Thousandths of an inch.
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