Why the 1.6L diesel hate?

[SpeedoJosh]

So I'm trying to school myself up on Westy's. Been doing a lot of reading on here, and one thing that has me searching with no avail is the hate on the 1.6 diesel? I figured they'd be praised for the diesel reliability and gas mileage.

Most I could turn up, is that they are slow. How slow I'm not sure b/c I haven't seen or read any comparison. But I thought all Westy's were slow. Is the 1.6 just completely unnecessarily slow, or about the same as a 1.9?
Any other downfalls?

[Wildthings]

There is no guarantee that an overworked diesel is going to be reliable. A 16L NA Diesel Vanagon has 48HP (?) and makes a stock 1960 Beetle seem like a speed demon.

[Vango Conversions]

They're only 48hp, an 80hp 1.9 is downright fast by comparison.

Good luck pulling onto a busy road, they're so slow that they're dangerous.

[SpeedoJosh]

Wow, that slow huh.

[gl98115]

Think about driving through the Smokey Mtns in a 5000 lb vehicle with 48 hp (when new). Think about driving behind that vehicle on a two lane mountain road.
_________________
'87 Westy w/ 2.3l GoWesty WBX

[SpeedoJosh]

A pretty cherry 82 with the 1.6 popped up locally. Never imagined it'd be that slow. Guess I'll hold out for a gasser

[Wildthings]

Get it cheap and pop in an AAZ or TDI.

[Mike Robinson]

The 1.6na is under powered, but with the ratios it has with the transaxle it is not too bad. Good diesel mileage .....

But they do work hard and they are old. They don't tend to last long. If you are looking to buy one I would nearly assume the engine is toast or about to be toast. The acid test is to take the crank case breather off the rocker cover gasket and rev the engine. Lots of emissions is a sign of blow back, ie rings gone.

The other common problem is head gasket failure. If you spend time on the yahoo diesel vanagon group there are lots of cooling problems that are caused by head gasket failures.

The good is it is easy to drop a 1.9na into them or slightly more difficult a 1.9td AAZ or more complicated 1.9tdi. These engines are expensive and you really should get a transmission out of an air cooled vanagon as they suit these engines way more.

You have to want a diesel to have a diesel.

You are most likely looking at an engine conversion if you have a diesel. If you are looking at having to do this get a van with a gas engine and do a bostig conversion.

The other challenge is it was a one year production in westy form. There are a number of unique parts and problems with them. Not too difficult to solve, but some odd stuff is nla.

Now if you are a diesel head and love to tinker ......

Mike
'82 westy diesel AAZ

[ALIKA T3]

You can source anything you want in Europe.

the 1.6L sucks,I agree,it was my first van in France.

The older ones have a woodruff key on the crankshaft,I'm still surprised to see them around alive sometimes.
The bolt for the crank pinion is NLA big time though,that's the only thing.
You can source one from a metric bolts suppliers,that's all.

Do you guys have a different diesel engine in the USA,I mean for the injection pump? They're 50 HP in Europe,not 48.Man,that's a 4 % more beast under the lid
_________________
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget

[Zeitgeist 13]

I'm a bigtime diesel-head from way back and have owned one of these myself, but I don't think it was morally responsible to inflict these vans on an unsuspecting public. If you buy one, simply step up to a 1.9TD or TDI and you'll be in good stead with the universe again.

That is all
_________________
--Casey
'89 Bluestar
"Endeavor to persevere"

[srmpf]

I have one of the 1.6 NA westies. The van is on the second engine and it's ok'ish to drive around town and on flat roads but every single hill is a pain to climb - you really have to look ahead and speed up to the max to make it up that hill with a reasonable speed.

I like the simplicity of that engine but I'm thinking of replacing the 1.6 with a 1.9 NA. 25% more horse power and 30% more torque combined with a transaxle from an aircooled vanagon should make it better (and still simple enough).

Forget about cost saving - with the higher price of diesel here in the US driving a vanagon diesel doesn't make that much sense financially.
_________________
1982 Westfalia 1.6 NA Diesel, named "Travolta" - work in progress

[kuleinc]

I too was looking into one of these for a second Van to drive around in, and found that getting one would pretty much mean yanking that poor little motor out and putting in a different diesel...

I just don't understand why diesel is so much $$$ here in the states, even with the better MPG's the higher price nearly makes it moot.
_________________
1987 Wolfram Gray 2WD Vanagon GL Westy (1.8T Powered!)
2001 ALH Jetta TDi (Hers)
1998 ALH New Beetle (His)
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=496946

[Andrew A. Libby]

[kuleinc]

Diesel in the bay area (last time I checked) was more than premium octane... I'll have to check again, it does fluctuate.
_________________
1987 Wolfram Gray 2WD Vanagon GL Westy (1.8T Powered!)
2001 ALH Jetta TDi (Hers)
1998 ALH New Beetle (His)
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=496946

[campism]

[Wildthings]

Forty years ago Diesel was $0.15 per gallon in Mexico. Driving a Diesel rabbit that got 40 MPG you could go over 250 miles on a dollar of gas. But Rabbits, trucks, and buses all belched black stinky smoke almost continuously and city street were nasty dirty places because of it. The almost universal use of turbos cleaned the visual soot up but Diesels still pumped a lot of nasties into the air. The newer expensive low sulphur fuels help a lot with making city air more breathable.

Low pollution fuel does cost more, but the main driver in higher fuel cost is that others countries have done what we have tried to force them to do for the last 60+ years, they are Americanizing and using fuel like it falls from the sky.

[nemobuscaptain]

EPA and CARB have an anti diesel vendetta.
_________________
Nemo, 91 Multivan, Cincy

Win the Raffle Bus from Salem Imports!!!!! http://www.naturalbus.net/naturalbus.net/Rafflebus.html

www.Fullmoonbusclub.com
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ohiovalleytribe/

My favorite youtube site these days for learning auto body basics: https://www.youtube.com/user/ButlerCollision?feature=watch

[thummmper]

they probably have small children
_________________
todd


www.losthorizons.com
89 tintop [below]
90 suby tintop


soon to be driving a smooth mid engined vanagon again
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/vanagon-lhs/
http://www.ted.com/talks/garth_lenz_images_of_beauty_and_devastation.html

[POS]

Hey,

Not everyone hates the 1.6na vanagon.
You have to have a special temperament to own and drive one.

They are best suited to the backroads and travel at a leisurely pace. They are wonderful around town.

I drove mine to Florida from Missouri thru the smokies at least twice and it performed well for what it is. Most folks want to get there quicker and that would not be the 1.6na.

A few years back I converted Lazarus to an intercooled turbo and then later changed the transmission to an aircooled. We now travel a bit faster though I am no speed demon. These old diesel are not very environment-friendly, unless you burn grease. We have done that as well with good results.

Hope that helps...

David
p.s. oh yeah, last month we hauled six people with luggage to Arkansas, we ran 63-65mph except on those blamed hills at Branson, one slowed us to 45mph. Lazarus is a full westy.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5882803&highlight=#5882803

[bluebus86]

My Dad test drove a brand new Diesel Vanagon back in the day, he told me straight up it had less punch than his old fully loaded 1963 Microbus camper (50 Hp). he opted for the gasoline version, considered it a hotrod compaired to the old Bus.

Diesels, have just better than half the Hp of a 2.1 gasoline motor.

great mileage, but SLOW.

PS 2.1 liter gas engine does 20 mpg on highway, Not bad for a big assed van.