limited slip differential

Bruce · Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 2:58 am Post subject:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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Pierre G · Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 3:44 am Post subject:

I own a 1976 civilian 181 (thing) build in germany with a LSD gearbox. After having asked to Pierre-J, I added 80w90 for limited slip diff that I found at a gas station (Total). I saw some castrol too. Pierre-J and some other guys (former Vw mechanics) told me it has to be a special LSD oil, definitely not a common 80w90. Good luck in your search for the perfect oil.

Pierre
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1976 181/Thing, 1967 fastback, 1973 squareback, 1964 microbus, 1967 Double Cab, 1969 westfalia (currently under resto), 1972 LM1C dune buggy, 1974 jean's bug, 1974 1303 (super beetle, currently under reassembly after new paint).

Bruce · Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:20 pm Post subject:

That is not right. All gear oil for manual transmissions is compatible with ZF LSDs. You just have to ensure the oil you are using has the special additive for clutch type LSDs. If it does not, you must buy the additive and add it.
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Pierre G · Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 10:16 pm Post subject:

Bruce, what is the difference between a special LSD oil and an oil with special additive for LSD ???? Isn't that quite the same ?

Pierre
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1976 181/Thing, 1967 fastback, 1973 squareback, 1964 microbus, 1967 Double Cab, 1969 westfalia (currently under resto), 1972 LM1C dune buggy, 1974 jean's bug, 1974 1303 (super beetle, currently under reassembly after new paint).

Bruce · Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 12:16 pm Post subject:

There is no such thing as a "special LSD oil". That description implies an oil that can only be used with an LSD.

All gear oil can be used with all differentials. Clutch type LSDs require an oil with slightly different lubrication characteristics. Some gear oils have the additive needed to work with an LSD already in the oil. Most gear oils do not have the additive. To those without, you must add the additive.

If you look at automatic transmissions for American cars, a Ford must use the Ford type ATF. You cannot use Ford type ATF in a Chevy. They are not compatible.

All manual transmission gear oils can be used with all differentials. LSDs require the additve.
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Pierre G · Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 3:12 pm Post subject:

To me a gear oil that has the additive needed for a LSD is a special LSD oil in the sense : special oil for LSD, already done. I'm not trying to say it was a special oil before the additive, just seeing it's the good oil for my car. And it's easier to use as it's already made. That's all. You're probably right saying that it's not special in the sense it can only be used with LSD cars. But I guess it's not made for the common cars, and more for those with LSD's. It's no big deal anyway, I don't want to argument for ever about that point, sorry if I wasn't clear enough.
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1976 181/Thing, 1967 fastback, 1973 squareback, 1964 microbus, 1967 Double Cab, 1969 westfalia (currently under resto), 1972 LM1C dune buggy, 1974 jean's bug, 1974 1303 (super beetle, currently under reassembly after new paint).

Bruce · Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 10:52 am Post subject:

Oil with the additive can still be used in cars that don't have an LSD.

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Pierre G · Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 4:08 pm Post subject:

Sure, but what's the point ? There's no interest in doing that. Thanks for the photo, I've never seen that before, don't have it on my thing. Is it from a thing ? What year ?
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1976 181/Thing, 1967 fastback, 1973 squareback, 1964 microbus, 1967 Double Cab, 1969 westfalia (currently under resto), 1972 LM1C dune buggy, 1974 jean's bug, 1974 1303 (super beetle, currently under reassembly after new paint).

Bruce · Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 1:53 am Post subject:

Pierre G · Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 2:06 am Post subject:

The trans code is AW as it's an IRS. I also have a swingaxle Thing with LSD that is not running anymore, plus another with swingaxle but w/o LSD. They both need a lot of bodywork. You can see some of the revival of my thing here if you want:
http://blog.flat4ever.com/flat4gotten

Pierre
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1976 181/Thing, 1967 fastback, 1973 squareback, 1964 microbus, 1967 Double Cab, 1969 westfalia (currently under resto), 1972 LM1C dune buggy, 1974 jean's bug, 1974 1303 (super beetle, currently under reassembly after new paint).

Bruce · Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 12:48 pm Post subject:

AW is indeed the right code for a T181 with a factory installed ZF LSD. It should have originally had a filler plug like in my pic.

What is the trans code of the swing axle trans with the ZF?
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oorwullie · Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 11:43 am Post subject:

Bruce · Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 1:46 pm Post subject:

pjmacua · Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 12:46 pm Post subject:

oorwullie · Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:44 pm Post subject:

i suspect that the oil plug was introduced on later 181's with IRS. mine is definately an AL and both wheels turn in the same direction when one side is turned by hand. so my car is worth at least $1500 more i reckon.but it's not for sale........... Wink

we're breaking another one which i pulled the engine out of today for in a friend's bay window bus, that hasn't got an LSD in it(wheel turns opposite way) but i forgot to look and see what gbox code it has.will check it later this week or next.

mine has a BC plate simply because i have a few of them and my sister lives on vancouver island. Smile

pjmacua · Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 3:42 am Post subject:

Bruce · Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 2:51 pm Post subject:

Pierre G · Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 9:15 pm Post subject:

Bruce,
the other Pierre will check the code on his swingaxle LSD trans. The reason why I didn't do it before is that I live in Nouméa NC and my swingaxle thing(s) are outside the city on a land that I own 45mn far from home. Plus, the trans is still on the car so I have to go under the car on the (sometimes humid) grass to check. But as it seems important to you, I'll do it soon. I think that maybe you're taking all this too seriously, as it's not that important to be sure that all the trans codes on that list really existed. VW built their cars with thousands of different combinations and even if 99% were with the standard options, sometimes you find some really surprising things, like LSD on a bay window trans. Since I had heard of it many times, I was still surprised and amazed when I really saw it. Especially in Europe where a lot of different vw's were built for different markets, in different plants , you can find everything, even the most surprising. Even if you saw hundreds of trans, you can still find a different one someday.
And by the way, Pierre-J Macua is well known in the french (european)world of VW things, he runs his own website and is asked for informations by hundreds of thing owners. You can't think he's just copying a bad internet list. Of course he has his own sources of info, and not only the internet which is as we all know, not allways 100% trustful.
Pierre Gouarin
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1976 181/Thing, 1967 fastback, 1973 squareback, 1964 microbus, 1967 Double Cab, 1969 westfalia (currently under resto), 1972 LM1C dune buggy, 1974 jean's bug, 1974 1303 (super beetle, currently under reassembly after new paint).

Bruce · Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 3:00 am Post subject:

Pierre, oorwullie already confirmed his gearbox is AL. That is all I am asking, proof of the existance of a gearbox with that code. If you and Pierre can confirm this, great.
The reason I ask is that I would like to learn what each coded trans has inside it so that when I go to open them up, I know what to expect. Then if what's inside isn't what I expected, I know it has been messed with. Just like Pierre asked me earlier what the part number of the special LSD filler plug was, and when it started. Personally I don't care when that started, but I can respect his quest for that tidbit of info. He's here to learn (and pass on his knowledge) just like I am. And when I see incorrect info being passed on as correct, I will speak out. The copied trans code list that circulates the www is one of those.
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oorwullie · Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 2:17 am Post subject:

at the moment i can only add that the mexican built 1973 we're breakng has an AK swing axle gearbox iin it.

oh, and some porsche 356a's were also designated model 182............... Wink


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