Recharge Air Conditioning Yourself?

[Rodknock]

Is it possible to recharge the air conditioning on my '86 Westy myself? Is the stuff available at the local auto parts store to do it?

[Volksaholic]

Here's a link to a thread I started regarding rehabilitating my Vanagon A/C... I was given lots of good advice and a little bit of crap for being paranoid!

WARNING: This turned into a 3 page thread... read at your own risk!
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2...p;start=40

What I took away from it is that Red-Tek seems like the sensible way to go... it's cheaper, more environmentally friendly, and comes highly recommended by folks on this forum that seem to know what they're talking about:

http://www.redtek.com/products_refr.html#

I bought the Refrigerant Recharge Kit that comes with the hoses and adapters. Dogpilot says he put in 5 cans of the stuff, but the Red-Tek sales person insists that the Vanagon calls for 3 so I bought one can of refrigerant in addition to the kit and figured I'd buy another one or two if it seems like it needs it. I haven't completed the recharge yet because I want to have a real shop suck out the system and check it for leaks. I hope to get that done within the next week because it's supposed to be in the mid 90's this weekend. If I like it the Subaru is going to get the same treatment.

[Rodknock]

Holy cow, that is a long thread! My AC has already been converted over to the 134 stuff, and I had it charged last summer and it cooled the van very well, but this spring it is not cooling at all so I think the refrigerant leaked out since the rest of the system appears to be working fine. Does this stuff leak out in one year? My Westy sits for 2 weeks at a time during winter, so maybe non-use causes the refrigerant to leak out?

[r39o]

Vanagons with their long rubber hoses are known for needed recharges every year or two. Nothing new. Whether R134 acts like the old R12 or how long the Redtek stuff will stay in, I dunno....
_________________
"Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!

1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....

Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently)

[Volksaholic]

If you read the thread a couple folks say that the R134 runs at a higher pressure than R12 (which the Vanagon system was designed for) and is prone to blowing out seals & such. One of the advantages of Red-Tek is supposed to be that it runs at a lower pressure and the refill kit includes a can of their LeakStop product (Dogpilot says he used their ProSeal... I don't know how much difference there is). Now I'm not qualified to know whether the above information is accurate... it's just what I was told in the previous thread and some independent research I did. IIRC, Terry Kay pointed out that the lower pressure will load the engine less when the A/C is running... makes sense to me.

If I might ask, what did the recharge cost you last year? I called a local outfit that was quoting me 5 lbs(?) of R12 at $50/lb + $30 or $50 for labor (I can't recall which)... roughly $300 to refill with R12 if the system was still tight. Red-Tek charged me about $70 for the refill hardware, refrigerant, and LeakStop. Granted... the $300 would include labor and I assume it would have covered evacuating and pressure/vacuum testing the system, but still think I'll be ahead when it's all said and done.

[Rodknock]

My last HFC 134 A recharge cost $63 (materials) and $83 (labor). I believe that included a leak check. I think I'll have it leak checked again, and then make a decision on what to put in there. One year per charge does not seem right. Any other vehicle I've owned lasted many years between recharges, so I would expect at least 2-3 years, but maybe I'm expecting too much. Maybe running the air in winter a few times would help keep the seals tight.

Funny thing when I look in the folders I keep on cars we have, the Honda Civic folder is nearly empty and has only one bill in it from tires, the Westy looks like a big thick book .

[hoserbug]

How much a can is the Red-Tek and where do you get it?

Thanks..

[Volksaholic]

[?Waldo?]

If it leaks, it will need a recharge. If it doesn't it won't. I had a subaru that was over 20 yrs old and still blew ice-cold on the original refrigerant.

Andrew

[psych-illogical]

I had a local shop recharge my 93 4Runner a couple of years ago. It had been converted from an R12 system to an R134 system. He explained that if it was done right, there should be no problem but, that the R134 molecules are much smaller and a very tiny leak ( one that is small enough that you don't notice a vacuum drop even after it's pumped down) will eventually leak out the 134 refrigerant. Don't beat me up if this is incorrect, it's what the A/C tech told me.
_________________
83 1/2 Westy waterboxer
'57 Beetle-sold
Coupla '81 BMW motorcycles (R80G/S; R100RS)
'96 BMW R1100GS

[hoserbug]

[r39o]

Normal or not, the long rubber flex lines in the Vanagon allow a few molecules out followed by a few more and more and more until you are low. This is a very well known (at least by service people) normal thing for a Vanagon.

I am hoping the Redtek does not go out as fast.
_________________
"Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!

1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....

Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently)

[hoserbug]

[Terry Kay]

Your dealing with the long , old , porous refrigerant lines to and from the condensor, your dealing with old and more than likely brittle o-rings at the condensor, evaporator, compressor & the dryer.
Every connection has a possibility of leaking.
The seal at the compresor clutch will leak.
134-A with it's higher than originally designed operating pressures can cause leaks at all of the above mentioned area's in any older vehicle, unless everything in the system is brand new and up to snuff.

If your not planning on doing a total system update, take a pass on the 134-A because it'll give you & your AC more problems than you could imagine.

Too high of operating pressures for the old parts to handle, plus smaller molecules of the refrigerant will cause big un-reliablity problems.

The Red Tek is the best viable option for an old , non current, AC system, just because it doesn't require too big of pressure to get the same job done.

And it does blow colder than 134-A when installed into a properly prepared / evac'ed refrigerant system.
_________________
T.K.

[brooklynvan]

I changed all my seals last summer, and had 134a put in the system (a friends shop did it for cost). worked great for the summer.

this spring I get no cooling, and the compressor sounds like it's grinding when I turn on the system.

I have a spare AC compressor (unfortunately untested, but for $10 off a parts van I couldn't say no) that I can put in,

my question is:

If I replace the compressor can I just put in the Redtec R12a? or do I need to evac the system and replace the oil etc?
_________________
1990 Vanagon "Plain Jane" Bostig in the Back
TRADED: 1967 Panel for 1976 BMW 2002
SOLD: 1984 Sunroof Vanagon with EJ22
RIP 1986 Saab turbo
and my daily commuter: a Bicycle

[Terry Kay]

Your putting in a used compressor.

It would be a real good idea to dump the old oil outa it and refill it with new fresh oil.

When's the last time the dryer was changed on the Van?

If it hasn't, or you dont know, you'll be amazed at the AC performace jump if you get a new one in the system.

While you have the system open, run air dryer aclohol through the low side and the high side hoses---before you install the new dryer.

Pour a pint of the alcohol in the high side line--blow it through it with air---repeat this on the low side line.
You'll be suprised at the snot that comes outa the hoses.

Then change the dryer, and evacuate the system.

Add the Red Tek--you'll be good to go.
_________________
T.K.

[hoserbug]

[hoserbug]

[Terry Kay]

On any GM AC system there is an orfice tube screen to catch the floating garbage.

In the Vanagon there is no such thing.

Flushing is the only way to get it clean.

Semi air compressor air dryer alcohol is cheap and available at any truck dealer, or parts house.
_________________
T.K.

[brooklynvan]

forgot to mention that I changed the receiver/dryer when I redid all the seals last year.

so I guess I'll blow some alcohol based cleaner through the hoses (after I have the old oil evac'd) then put in the red tek,

does the red tek have oil in the can? or does this need to be put in separately?

sorry if this is a dumb question but when I did it last year at my friend's shop it was all one machine that did the oil and the R134.
_________________
1990 Vanagon "Plain Jane" Bostig in the Back
TRADED: 1967 Panel for 1976 BMW 2002
SOLD: 1984 Sunroof Vanagon with EJ22
RIP 1986 Saab turbo
and my daily commuter: a Bicycle