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7three square
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 Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:18 pm Post subject: Ground torsion splines and keeping the bolt in? |
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read through the air ride forum and kinda saw what needs to be done but it wasnt 100 percent clear. tried redlocktite and both bolts still try to free themselves. need to know what anyone with ground splines have done.
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vdubin
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| Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:14 am Post subject: |
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| maybe weld in a stud and double nut that. |
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Bobnotch
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| Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:11 am Post subject: Re: Ground torsion splines and keeping the bolt in? |
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| 7three square wrote: | | read through the air ride forum and kinda saw what needs to be done but it wasnt 100 percent clear. tried redlocktite and both bolts still try to free themselves. need to know what anyone with ground splines have done. |
This IS the part that hasn't been solved yet. See Brian Fye's thread, after he lost the left front tire and lower trailing arm on his way to work. We gave him a couple of ideas, but he hasn't had the time to work them thru.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here; http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=240540 -tear down
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120 |
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Mike Fisher
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| Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:42 am Post subject: |
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Seems like it will need a new carrier bearing/bushing to keep the bar from wobbling loose.
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7three square
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| Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:44 am Post subject: |
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hmm okay, guess ill run to home depot or something and get some all thread and try that out.
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Bobnotch
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| Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:55 am Post subject: |
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| 7three square wrote: | | hmm okay, guess ill run to home depot or something and get some all thread and try that out. |
Keep in mind that the "all thread" will be soft. What you really need is a shoulder bolt, and a bearing (preferably a flanged bearing) to allow movement, and be able to lock down on the end of the bar. Otherwise, you'll just end up shearing the stud (all thread) off, and probably inside the end of the bar. What you need to do, is tack weld or bolt on some sort of cage for the trailing arm end, so IF the bolt (stud) comes off (out), the trailing arm will stay in place (and not come out). That's the other part of that bolts job, to hold the trailing arm retainer in place. 
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here; http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=240540 -tear down
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120 |
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7three square
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| Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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Hmm hope i will be okay for now. Didnt see that last post in time. Just got a couple longer bolts and cut the heads off them screwed the bolt into the beam about an inch and welded it up. Put them in the housing used a washer and 2 nuts to secure it. drove it around the neighborhood, lifting and lowering the suspension and the bolts stayed tight
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vwfye
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7three square
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| Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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sweet 
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vwfye
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7three square
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| Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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hopefully in the future ill be able to cut the welded portion and back the bolt back out. not gonna be a daily driver or anything so itll have to just hang in there for now
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vwfye
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7three square
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| Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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Yea mabey take torsion out every couple hundred miles and inspect bolt for bends or cracking
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7three square
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| Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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| vwfye wrote: | I received 25k miles of use from my car before the failure on that side. I was driving my car daily at the time. If you are only doing cruising and infrequent use, just inspect things now and again.
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Were you welded or was that the stock bolt that backed out
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Bobnotch
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| Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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| vwfye wrote: | I believe it was Bob that told me that welding in a stud will be bad as the too different grades of metal will cause the crystallization of metal.
Bob, please give the technical reasons for this! So, I did not weld in a stud. I have used green permanent loctite to hold the stud in and when I transfer my air ride stuff to the other car, I will be building a carrier to prevent catastrophic failure. |
Yes I did tell you that. The reason behind it, is 2 fold. One is that the bar is made of hardened metal, and as it gets heated, it changes the molecular structure of the metal. As it cools down, it gets harder than it was before welding. This makes it easier to break. Now the bolt goes thru the same change, and using a soft bolt, really makes it harder. If the bolt was a 10.9 (grade 8 SAE), then it's already at the strongest tensile strength it has. Once heated, it now becomes even more brittle. One shop I worked at, got some Chinese 10.9 bolts in, that we proceeded to snap right off, as they were "too hard" when Rockwell tested (too brittle from heat treat).
I think I suggested you get the green loctite (bearing and sleeve stuff), as it is the hardest stuff I know. You'll need a torch to get it softened up just to remove a bolt. We used it for bonding bronze bushings to steel sleeves in industrial applications. The bronze would be worn thru to the metal in places, and the bushing didn't move an inch in it's sleeve.
You also need to build something to prevent the trailing arm from coming out, IF the bolt gets worn thru. Like I said to Brian, I'd make it a bolt on device, in case you ever needed to get the trailing arm out.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here; http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=240540 -tear down
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120 |
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vwfye
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