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mastajusty
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Joined: August 22, 2006
Posts: 160
Location: Chattavegas
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 Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:05 am Post subject: flip the R&P |
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Ok folks, need a little help… I have spent hours searching and while I have found some information I still can’t seem to get a good answer. I’m installing a straight axle kit on my 67 bus. I am going to use the transmission that is in the bus now and know that in order for this to be done I need to flip the R&P. The question is how? I know (think) that it comes out the starter side and goes in the other, but is that it? Seems like some people say that’s all and others say unless you take it to a shop it’s going to crap out fast.
Anyone care to give me a step by step? Maybe some thoughts on doing it yourself vs. taking it some place, I would MUCH rather do the job “in house” but then again, I don’t want to be yanking all this stuff out again b/c I toasted my transmission…
As always, thanks in advance for the help! |
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pyrOman
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Joined: July 21, 2003
Posts: 8689
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:37 am Post subject: |
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I don't think you'll find an answer any different here than what already has been discussed/argued about before. 
Basicly if you can afford to pay for this job to be done at a tranny place, you should go with it. Otherwise take your chances at DIYS if you think you are confident enough to do the job. IMHO, for need and lack of funds I've done it before without any ill effects. In fact so many times now that I've even helped others do just the same. So far so good. 
Good luck in your decision and your project! 
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"If we can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people, under the pretence of taking care of them, they must become happy." Thomas Jefferson |
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mastajusty
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Joined: August 22, 2006
Posts: 160
Location: Chattavegas
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| Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:03 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the advise, i'm thinking i'll just go for it and if see what happens. If i happen to have parts left over i may drop it off at the trans shop and have them take a look, However if it is as "basic" as taking stuff out the starter side and installing it on the other....i think i can handle that. I guess all i have to loose is my trans  |
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vwbusride
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Joined: January 26, 2004
Posts: 76
Location: Where the city thinks we are a bus chop shop
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| Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:41 am Post subject: |
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| The most important part to flipping the ring gear, is to make sure your preload and backlash is set perfect. Otherwise it will not last long. |
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mastajusty
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Joined: August 22, 2006
Posts: 160
Location: Chattavegas
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| Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 9:10 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | make sure your preload and backlash is set perfect. |
care to share how to make sure this is correct, i can't say i have any idea as to how and do this. |
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pyrOman
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Joined: July 21, 2003
Posts: 8689
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 9:27 am Post subject: |
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| mastajusty wrote: | | Quote: | | make sure your preload and backlash is set perfect. |
care to share how to make sure this is correct, i can't say i have any idea as to how and do this. |
Well, I trust that with this "preload-backlash" statement it will open up this thread for yet another he-said-she-said type of argument.
Again, I've done quite a few ring-flips without any adverse issues and matter-O-factly I've found absolutely no real or perceived way to "set" this backlash. There have been no way to adjust or shim this set up and have NEVER ended up with missing or extra parts. The the ring and gear set up in these trannies is symetrical and the only difference I can see in backlash is the wear on the ring gear between "forward & reverse". Once flipped, it will start receiving the most wear on the opposite side of the teeth. Could then have more or less "humm" depending on the wear already there. Other than that, if there are other issues such as a catastrophic failure, I'd veture to guess that there was aready a pre-condition before the flip, such as a cracked case or some such.
Flame away!
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Some people are so busy being clever they don't have time enough to be wise.
"If we can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people, under the pretence of taking care of them, they must become happy." Thomas Jefferson |
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mastajusty
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Joined: August 22, 2006
Posts: 160
Location: Chattavegas
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| Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 9:35 am Post subject: |
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Well I certainly didn’t want to start a he said she said thread, but there is a lack of specific, or relatively specific information as to how to go about doing this. (although there is some information on sv2s.com) I’m going to bite the bullet and just go for it. I should have the trans out of the bus by this weekend and the rest of my parts early next week, I’ll post pictures when I get into the meat of it.  |
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pyrOman
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Joined: July 21, 2003
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Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 9:47 am Post subject: |
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Not to doubt on your abilities but good luck!
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Some people are so busy being clever they don't have time enough to be wise.
"If we can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people, under the pretence of taking care of them, they must become happy." Thomas Jefferson |
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dlc_b0z
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Joined: February 23, 2006
Posts: 734
Location: Btown, FL
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| Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:01 am Post subject: |
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Scott (PARTSSCOOT) might be doing a write up on this over at SBS . You might want to try him for advice.
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dirtylawnchair |
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mastajusty
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Joined: August 22, 2006
Posts: 160
Location: Chattavegas
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| Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:33 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Scott (PARTSSCOOT) might be doing a write up on this over at SBS |
i'll take a look over there, as for my "ability;" i'm not going to learn anything by taking it to a shop |
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derv
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Joined: October 12, 2005
Posts: 2554
Location: Oak Park (Chicago), IL
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| Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 11:38 am Post subject: |
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| mastajusty wrote: | | Quote: | | Scott (PARTSSCOOT) might be doing a write up on this over at SBS |
i'll take a look over there, as for my "ability;" i'm not going to learn anything by taking it to a shop |
Ignore Pyro - he has had a flame up his butt for years.
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WTB - Engine No. 0 467 865 - LOL
| kombisutra wrote: | | tact and time will win every time. |
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mastajusty
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Joined: August 22, 2006
Posts: 160
Location: Chattavegas
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| Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 11:46 am Post subject: |
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| Oh, no problem! I'm just happy to get some advice! |
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pyrOman
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Joined: July 21, 2003
Posts: 8689
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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| derv wrote: | Ignore Pyro - he has had a flame up his butt for years.
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Don't be a jealous hater!
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Some people are so busy being clever they don't have time enough to be wise.
"If we can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people, under the pretence of taking care of them, they must become happy." Thomas Jefferson |
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Eaallred
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Joined: May 18, 2003
Posts: 4056
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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| Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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| pyrOman wrote: |
There have been no way to adjust or shim this set up and have NEVER ended up with missing or extra parts. |
Incorrect. You can (and certainly SHOULD) set the backlash when you flip the ring gear over. There is a shim (or shims) on each side of the diff behind each large bearing. If you're limited on shims, you can change the number of paper gaskets to get it where you need.
Now, if you aren't changing anything, and are just flopping the gear from one side to the other, the preload does not change, but the backlash most certainly does and must be re-shimmed accordingly if you want it done right.
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Eric Allred
1963 EFI/Crank Fired Drag Bug
Utah's fastest N/A VW
2005-2006-2007-2008-2009
Housework is a snap since I realized..."Hey! I'm a guy!" |
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mastajusty
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Joined: August 22, 2006
Posts: 160
Location: Chattavegas
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| Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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| so what would the best way to go about making sure the backlash is correct? |
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Wayland
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Joined: December 29, 2005
Posts: 379
Location: Lasqueti Island B.C.
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| Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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Once flipped, it will start receiving the most wear on the opposite side of the teeth. [/quote]
Not so. The drive side of the teeth will still be the same, just the direction the diff rotates will be reversed, because it has been flipped. Just try to visualize it and you'll see what I'm saying. |
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bill may
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Joined: August 27, 2003
Posts: 10799
Location: san diego,ca
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| Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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sheesh,pyro-you looked at the dealership tools at the classic. about 30 pieces in 2 plastic trays (gray plastic)... remember the vw dealership tools i bought for $17 ????
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1958? DD panel.need parts.
need more argon/co2. need more time.need bench seat.
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pyrOman
Fire Master
Joined: July 21, 2003
Posts: 8689
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Eaallred wrote: | | pyrOman wrote: |
There have been no way to adjust or shim this set up and have NEVER ended up with missing or extra parts. |
Incorrect. ...There is a shim (or shims) on each side of the diff behind each large bearing. |
Did not find any shims of any kind on every single one I've done.
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Some people are so busy being clever they don't have time enough to be wise.
"If we can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people, under the pretence of taking care of them, they must become happy." Thomas Jefferson |
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Eaallred
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Joined: May 18, 2003
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Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
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| Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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It's right there in the picture. It has about a1/8" gap in it.
It is split so it's not a full ring. You can see it.
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Eric Allred
1963 EFI/Crank Fired Drag Bug
Utah's fastest N/A VW
2005-2006-2007-2008-2009
Housework is a snap since I realized..."Hey! I'm a guy!" |
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ekimikem
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