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50stuf Samba Member
Joined: August 04, 2006 Posts: 29 Location: Where the girls are
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Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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I guess only a few people really understood my question.
I was asking ,which ONE item you would like to see reproduced?
If you didn't have ONE item then there was no need to reply, now was there.
I think that is what coad means......
BTW coad........whats up with that picture of Stalin?
CH |
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KantDriveFast Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2005 Posts: 4293 Location: Caldwell, Id.
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Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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Forget accessories...stamp out some friggin' fenders that fit like originals!!!
You would be a VERY popular guy.
Accessories should be off limits because they are just that...accessories. They are not needed, but wanted. If someday the world runs out of fender skirts and curb feelers, we can all still drive our cars around just fine. |
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Brezelwerks Samba Member
Joined: March 17, 2003 Posts: 1421 Location: Tyngsboro, MA
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Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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53 0val wrote: |
veewee25 wrote: |
Im sure that there are a few small items we all would like reproduced.
These guys are just worried that the parts that they way over paid for will drop in value. Sad thing is that most of these oh so rare accesories were just cheesy J.C. Whitney type items in thier day.
The one thing that everyone needs to understand is that the VW hobby is eventually going to be just like the Street Rodding hobby. It wouldnt exist without reproduced parts!!
Some of the "Fake" '32 Fords are bringing much more money than any restored original version could ever bring.
As this hobby becomes more of a rich mans sport it is only going to get worse.
And for anyone who wants to argue that this isnt becomeing a rich mans game, Please think back to the 80'-90's when you could buy beetles all day long for 100-500 dollars. |
Not true in the Vintage Stock part of the hobby. Go ahead, reproduce a Kienzle Mirror Clock........MotoMeter gauges and panel.....Becker Monza Radio......Split Pop outs....FoxCraft Fenders skirts.......Petri Bat Wheel Horn Ring. People have tried............. You couldn't come close to the quality of the originals at a price that would not encourage the buyer to look at the real items instead. |
Bob is correct. It would never really be cost feasible to completely reproduce an authentic rare accessory that would fully match the design and details of the original thing, there is always a compromise somewhere. Passionate collectors (of which I am one also) are more than pleased to point these differences out, and its a valuable education for everyone.
Even the highest end reproduction Porsche parts, made here or even overseas with die cast high dollar steel mold tooling, using world class volume production manufacturing techniques, overseen by dozens of engineers and quality control specialists, etc, still can't match the details of the original parts. I hear from high end Porsche owners and collectors complaining regularly about the missing details with even the expensive reproductions.
On some less complex items one can get very close at times depending on your level of talent and skills. At other times you can achieve a very high (if not even better) finish quality over the original items, etc., but there is always a compromise somewhere else, sometimes its the wrong paint, plating is off, hardware markings incorrect, toll marks off, etc. etc. Thats why the prices for original accessories only continues to grow (and often skyrocket).
There are just different markets in this growing hobby today though, each market determines what levels of originality, quality, and authenticity are wanted, all of course based on various price points. Its the same for what kind of car you desire and can reasonably afford, whether it be a resto candidate to a daily driver, or a full blown concours level restoration. The closer you get to a concours level car you want its just going to cost you exponentially more, and nomatter how much you spend, the car will still never match the fine details that car once had when it left the factory.
In terms of looking for ideas for reproducing accessories, there are still some candidates left. I would add some caution though, since the simpler things and the most desireable things with some amount of return on investment have mostly been done already. The area where I encourage folks to explore carving out a niche in today is to consider creating items that play within the red hot custom or resto-custom and hot rod markets, best of luck!
Gary |
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banana split Samba Member
Joined: January 22, 2002 Posts: 1068 Location: Beautiful British Columbia Canada
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Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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Well here's something that a lot of us need and are looking for and don't stand much of a chance of finding : mounting hardware for the original Foxcraft fender skirts. They look simple enough to manufacture and I'm sure even the purists wouldn't care at all if someone were to repro them
_________________ My Beetles :
1951 Crotch Cooler 11G Split Ragtop
1953 Zwitter
1964 Chop Top |
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Herbie3Rivers Samba Member
Joined: May 07, 2001 Posts: 1271 Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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Tough decission. I do second the Uni Vents though.
If there were one thing that I would love to see reproduced(again) it's the glovebox organizer. _________________ Yeah I like Herbie AND New Beetles. Got a problem with it? Tough.
2010 New Beetle Final Edition
2009 Ford Mustang Bullitt
1999 New Beetle GLS
1983 Mercedes 300D
1974 Karmann Ghia
1972 Super Beetle
1970 Beetle Sunroof
1959 Original Herbie #6
1956 Oval
Three Rvers VW Club
Pittsburgh Vintage Grand Prix
Visit Herbie the Love Bug at LoveBugFans.com |
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Cabriothusiast Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2003 Posts: 167 Location: Bigfork, Montana
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Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:41 am Post subject: Reproduction parts |
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Vote: NONE... no repro junk necessary - except rubber and parts needed to get the car running safely. The accessories were generally not widely placed on these cars anyways and now every car seems to have them. Thats not what made these cars true 50's icons. If you have repro steering rings and the like.. you know it and you know your car is a notch below. IMHO |
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Thornton EMPI Guru
Joined: August 27, 2001 Posts: 2107 Location: Portland to AZ back to Portland
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Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 10:39 am Post subject: Re: Reproduction parts |
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Cabriothusiast wrote: |
Vote: NONE... no repro junk necessary - except rubber and parts needed to get the car running safely. The accessories were generally not widely placed on these cars anyways and now every car seems to have them. Thats not what made these cars true 50's icons. If you have repro steering rings and the like.. you know it and you know your car is a notch below. IMHO |
I totally agree too _________________ Thornton |
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Herbie3Rivers Samba Member
Joined: May 07, 2001 Posts: 1271 Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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With the rarity of the high dollar accessories today, I have no problem with using reproductions(as long as there is a quality to it). I'd rather trash a repro while driving around, than subjecting an original(unless it was on the car when I bought it) to use. Call me crazy, but I can't see paying a couple hundred dollars for an accessory that's NOS to put it on my car and use it. Accessories are just that. Accessories. If you like it buy it. If you don't like it or don't like that it's a reproduction. No one's forcing you to buy it. _________________ Yeah I like Herbie AND New Beetles. Got a problem with it? Tough.
2010 New Beetle Final Edition
2009 Ford Mustang Bullitt
1999 New Beetle GLS
1983 Mercedes 300D
1974 Karmann Ghia
1972 Super Beetle
1970 Beetle Sunroof
1959 Original Herbie #6
1956 Oval
Three Rvers VW Club
Pittsburgh Vintage Grand Prix
Visit Herbie the Love Bug at LoveBugFans.com |
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overrestored Samba Member
Joined: December 24, 2005 Posts: 724
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Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 11:37 pm Post subject: blackwall 16 inch radials |
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rather than accesories... we could all use some 500 16 european radial tires in a period tread pattern. Veith, Vredestien, or Continental maybe. There must be thousands of folks looking for a good non bias ply 16 inch tire. Coker has michelin 475's that are too small... and michelin 500/550's that are way too tall. Nobody has anything just right.
Bias ply firestones or whatever... just don't ride the same. |
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volksbugusa Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2003 Posts: 366 Location: BUNNELL , FLORIDA. 32110.
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Herbie3Rivers Samba Member
Joined: May 07, 2001 Posts: 1271 Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 7:53 am Post subject: Re: blackwall 16 inch radials |
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overrestored wrote: |
rather than accesories... we could all use some 500 16 european radial tires in a period tread pattern. Veith, Vredestien, or Continental maybe. There must be thousands of folks looking for a good non bias ply 16 inch tire. Coker has michelin 475's that are too small... and michelin 500/550's that are way too tall. Nobody has anything just right.
Bias ply firestones or whatever... just don't ride the same. |
That's another good one. Good looking period tires. _________________ Yeah I like Herbie AND New Beetles. Got a problem with it? Tough.
2010 New Beetle Final Edition
2009 Ford Mustang Bullitt
1999 New Beetle GLS
1983 Mercedes 300D
1974 Karmann Ghia
1972 Super Beetle
1970 Beetle Sunroof
1959 Original Herbie #6
1956 Oval
Three Rvers VW Club
Pittsburgh Vintage Grand Prix
Visit Herbie the Love Bug at LoveBugFans.com |
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wcfvw69 Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004 Posts: 13382 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 8:22 am Post subject: |
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Herbie3Rivers wrote: |
With the rarity of the high dollar accessories today, I have no problem with using reproductions(as long as there is a quality to it). I'd rather trash a repro while driving around, than subjecting an original(unless it was on the car when I bought it) to use. Call me crazy, but I can't see paying a couple hundred dollars for an accessory that's NOS to put it on my car and use it. Accessories are just that. Accessories. If you like it buy it. If you don't like it or don't like that it's a reproduction. No one's forcing you to buy it. |
I think the majority of posters in this thread are recognized as collectors themselves. Clearly they have a vested interest. If someone does a great job of reproducing a period correct accessories then the value of the original declines. Sure, they purists will always know the difference between an original and copy but it would allow more folks access to having some of these accessories w/out paying a gazzilion dollars for them or worrying about actually using them on their cars. _________________ Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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vdubmax Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2004 Posts: 509 Location: Minneapolis
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Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 10:17 am Post subject: |
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I don't think repopping a part brings down the cost of an original. OG or nothing when it comes to accesories for me _________________ The Original German Folks |
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Lids Samba Member
Joined: June 15, 2004 Posts: 263 Location: London, UK
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Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 10:44 am Post subject: |
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No accessories, but...
Panels that actually resemble the originals and enable a car to be restored correctly wouldn't go amiss. |
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steven wood Samba Member
Joined: March 14, 2004 Posts: 1647 Location: Virginia, NOT West Virginia!
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Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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wcfvw69 wrote: |
Herbie3Rivers wrote: |
With the rarity of the high dollar accessories today, I have no problem with using reproductions(as long as there is a quality to it). I'd rather trash a repro while driving around, than subjecting an original(unless it was on the car when I bought it) to use. Call me crazy, but I can't see paying a couple hundred dollars for an accessory that's NOS to put it on my car and use it. Accessories are just that. Accessories. If you like it buy it. If you don't like it or don't like that it's a reproduction. No one's forcing you to buy it. |
I think the majority of posters in this thread are recognized as collectors themselves. Clearly they have a vested interest. If someone does a great job of reproducing a period correct accessories then the value of the original declines. Sure, they purists will always know the difference between an original and copy but it would allow more folks access to having some of these accessories w/out paying a gazzilion dollars for them or worrying about actually using them on their cars. |
If there not the real thing.....why have them. Why would you want a copy of something. The reason why I put an item on my car is to show that I did the work to track it down and buy it. Getting a good deal on it and waiting for the UPS man to show up and then installing the "trophy" on my car, it's nothing better than that. I don't go deer hunting, but I KNOW how a deer hunter feels when he shoots a 10 point buck, it's the thrill of the hunt for me. He puts the deer head on the wall, I put the accessories on my car |
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wcfvw69 Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004 Posts: 13382 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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steven wood wrote: |
wcfvw69 wrote: |
Herbie3Rivers wrote: |
With the rarity of the high dollar accessories today, I have no problem with using reproductions(as long as there is a quality to it). I'd rather trash a repro while driving around, than subjecting an original(unless it was on the car when I bought it) to use. Call me crazy, but I can't see paying a couple hundred dollars for an accessory that's NOS to put it on my car and use it. Accessories are just that. Accessories. If you like it buy it. If you don't like it or don't like that it's a reproduction. No one's forcing you to buy it. |
I think the majority of posters in this thread are recognized as collectors themselves. Clearly they have a vested interest. If someone does a great job of reproducing a period correct accessories then the value of the original declines. Sure, they purists will always know the difference between an original and copy but it would allow more folks access to having some of these accessories w/out paying a gazzilion dollars for them or worrying about actually using them on their cars. |
If there not the real thing.....why have them. Why would you want a copy of something. The reason why I put an item on my car is to show that I did the work to track it down and buy it. Getting a good deal on it and waiting for the UPS man to show up and then installing the "trophy" on my car, it's nothing better than that. I don't go deer hunting, but I KNOW how a deer hunter feels when he shoots a 10 point buck, it's the thrill of the hunt for me. He puts the deer head on the wall, I put the accessories on my car |
You make some great points. I too like hunting/finding those rare items both parts and or accessories. I guess my point is some of these accessories are nice to utilize and if I had something rare in the box chances are it won't be installed and or used. Both of my cars are driven a lot during nice days or weekends. I will admit to agonizing over whether I should install these items or not based on damaging it thus lessening the value. If I could find the same item in a nice repop for a tenth of the cost, it would be a no brainer for me to use it. _________________ Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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Brezelwerks Samba Member
Joined: March 17, 2003 Posts: 1421 Location: Tyngsboro, MA
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Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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steven wood wrote: |
wcfvw69 wrote: |
Herbie3Rivers wrote: |
With the rarity of the high dollar accessories today, I have no problem with using reproductions(as long as there is a quality to it). I'd rather trash a repro while driving around, than subjecting an original(unless it was on the car when I bought it) to use. Call me crazy, but I can't see paying a couple hundred dollars for an accessory that's NOS to put it on my car and use it. Accessories are just that. Accessories. If you like it buy it. If you don't like it or don't like that it's a reproduction. No one's forcing you to buy it. |
I think the majority of posters in this thread are recognized as collectors themselves. Clearly they have a vested interest. If someone does a great job of reproducing a period correct accessories then the value of the original declines. Sure, they purists will always know the difference between an original and copy but it would allow more folks access to having some of these accessories w/out paying a gazzilion dollars for them or worrying about actually using them on their cars. |
If there not the real thing.....why have them. Why would you want a copy of something. The reason why I put an item on my car is to show that I did the work to track it down and buy it. Getting a good deal on it and waiting for the UPS man to show up and then installing the "trophy" on my car, it's nothing better than that. I don't go deer hunting, but I KNOW how a deer hunter feels when he shoots a 10 point buck, it's the thrill of the hunt for me. He puts the deer head on the wall, I put the accessories on my car |
There are all kinds of reasons why people purchase reproduction accessories today. Its interesting to hear the opinions and I love to see the passion (as I also enjoy the hunt...), but mostly the analogies are somewhat cliche, or just sound bytes in the scheme of things. There are just all kinds of buyers and collectors out there, and all kinds of factors and sub-circumstances in play at a given time.
For example, aside from not wanting to spend considerably more money for originals, and not wanting to risk damaging an original accessory by installing it, based on years of observation and feedback from customers here, we have received input such as:
- Can't locate any originals after looking last week or the last 2-3 years
- The best quality originals are permanently on the growing number of show cars
- Customer has an NOS one in the box one but its part of their collection so they want a show quality repro instead for his car
- Collectors are holding onto originals and waiting to 2X-3X the prices
- Folks feel increasingly screwed for paying the prices they currently do for accessories and are tired of it
- Can't locate an original in time for a restored car's debut at an event
- Can't locate a complete original and there are no replacement parts available to fix/restore it
- The quality of available originals are basically garbage to poor, ok for a daily driver or rat but not for their car
- From what originals are available it would be very difficult and cost unfeasible to restore
- Availability of working mint to NOS originals has nearly evaporated today
- Quality reproductions are now available, you can't tell even from 1 foot away at a show if the item is original or reproduction
- A collector that has the accessory you want but will only trade for equally rare items and you don't have close to what he/she wants
- The trade deal to get you want forces you to give up more than what you think and know is a fair trade deal.
- The accessories buyer isn't a "collector" or at least not a purist collector, they just want a few interesting items on their car to look at and smile.
- Buyers of reproduction accessories don't care a second about what others think, particularly what a collector would think, just different people.
These are just the immediate and most repeated things that come to mind from customers that are both high end collectors down to even your normal everyday enthusiast. But there are all kinds of other reasons and dynamics that are going on all the time.
Gary |
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Cabriothusiast Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2003 Posts: 167 Location: Bigfork, Montana
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Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 11:54 am Post subject: repro or not to repro |
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I know all the guys who recreate these parts and although I like them personally and think they do very good work...their high quality repro products of unnecessary items like Petri rings or horn button centers does not make the hobby better. As these parts were fairly rare even when the cars were new....why do we need every car looking like it just got back from Pepboys? The Type 2's had very little in the name of accessories and now these vintage buses must stand on their rarity and authenticity. A novel concept! Bugs have travelled down a less gratifying path. Cheesey chrome gadgets, silly add-ons, and basically less than appealing accessories have made them look more and more rediculous. Like others previously, do the hunting, save your money and stick with the originals. There is NO accessory I have ever wanted to find that has not been found in multiples over the last 5 years.
The repro gurus should spend their time making things that actually keep these cars on the road. IMHO |
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Richard Roth Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2004 Posts: 952
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Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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If a reproduction is just as good as the original, why can't I go to Wal-Mart and buy a reproduction of the Mona Lisa, hang it on the wall and have a line of people around the block paying to see it ?
_________________ The problem with reality is that there's no background music !
1966 Empi GTV MKIV
1954 Kabriolett Beetle
1953 Porsche 356 1500S
1957 Cable brake standard model
1962 cable brake standard model
1956 23 window Samba
1960 Austin Healey 3000
1961 Corvair Greenbrier |
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Cabriothusiast Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2003 Posts: 167 Location: Bigfork, Montana
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Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 12:29 pm Post subject: VW Mona Lisa |
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Fake is fake....gotta avoid that at all costs. Kinda reminds me of the Pontiac Fiero Ferrari's
Glad I missed that chapter in the 80's!!!! |
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