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Talosian
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2007
Posts: 266
Location: Lake Chapala, Mexico
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 Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 12:57 pm Post subject: How fast is "reasonably" under the circumstances f |
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I took my Safari fir a spin today, just a few miles and nothing negative happened.
I'm wondering, taking the worst case scenario, I figure I have the original drive train. My speedometer is in KPH.
What would be a reasonable "cruising" speed for my unit? I don't want to blow the engine, though a full rebuild with new parts is only US$500. It's the thought of it happening 50 miles from home that worries me.
Any suggestions and input appreciated.
Thanks all. |
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Towel Rail
Horizontally Opposed
Joined: April 15, 2005
Posts: 4622
Location: SE CR IA US NA PE
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| Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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With the RGBs on your '71, probably 60 MPH (100 km/h).
_________________
1974 Thing -- under the knife
1967 Beetle -- spring/summer/fall driver
1996 Subaru OBW (EJ22, 5-speed, AWD) -- winter car, 3-seasons "don't feel like biking today" car
049 > 070 > 053 > 009 |
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Talosian
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2007
Posts: 266
Location: Lake Chapala, Mexico
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| Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Towel Rail"]With the RGBs on your '71, probably 60 MPH (100 km/h).[/quote]
Excuse my current ignorance, but what are RGBs?
Thanks. |
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Towel Rail
Horizontally Opposed
Joined: April 15, 2005
Posts: 4622
Location: SE CR IA US NA PE
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| Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Talosian wrote: |
| Towel Rail wrote: |
| With the RGBs on your '71, probably 60 MPH (100 km/h). |
Excuse my current ignorance, but what are RGBs?
Thanks. |
Reduction gear boxes. Pre-1973 181s used swingaxles and reduction gears to gain more ground clearance, much like a pre-1967 Bus.
_________________
1974 Thing -- under the knife
1967 Beetle -- spring/summer/fall driver
1996 Subaru OBW (EJ22, 5-speed, AWD) -- winter car, 3-seasons "don't feel like biking today" car
049 > 070 > 053 > 009 |
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titan
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2007
Posts: 53
Location: pittsburgh,pa
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| Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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| what can you expect in comparison to the 73 and 74? |
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bmwloco
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2006
Posts: 1093
Location: Asheville NC
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| Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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My Thing cruises very nicely at 70 mph or 112 kph. On a push, it'll do 75 mph or 121 kph.
My previous Thing, a 1974 hard top, back in the late 80's, would do about 60 mph or 96 kph.
My current '73 is faster. I suspect it may have a "freeway flyer" tranny or is just fast. Mind you, it's lighter with no top. I drive it like I stole it, and after two air cooled Porsches I treat it like one - regular service, good fuel, and always check tire inflation.
YMMV,
Dean |
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tjensen3618
Samba Member
Joined: December 04, 2006
Posts: 22
Location: Simi Valley, CA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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I just sold my '67 Squareback, I'm new to Thing's and I am looking to purchase one.
| Quote: |
| Pre-1973 181s used swingaxles and reduction gears |
Does the '73 and later use an IRS setup?
I talked to a guy who was selling one with the RGBs and he said his top speed was about 55MPH. I want mine for light off-roading and some highway use. Should I be looking for a 73-74 in that case and not bother with the pre 73's?
Thank you |
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Chas223
Samba Member
Joined: September 08, 2004
Posts: 109
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 8:42 pm Post subject: Speedo |
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The only thing I was ever told, is do not run your engine past any red dot in any corresponding gear (ie 1 bar is 1st gear, 2 bars = 2nd gear and so on) none is given for 4th gear. That way you will not blow up your engine!
See red bars on the speedo, small red bar between 10 and 20 mph on the white ring.
Chas |
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Towel Rail
Horizontally Opposed
Joined: April 15, 2005
Posts: 4622
Location: SE CR IA US NA PE
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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| tjensen3618 wrote: |
| Does the '73 and later use an IRS setup? |
Yep!
| Quote: |
I talked to a guy who was selling one with the RGBs and he said his top speed was about 55MPH. I want mine for light off-roading and some highway use. Should I be looking for a 73-74 in that case and not bother with the pre 73's?
Thank you |
Depends on the kind of highway. Around here, I can go 55 without getting run over, but YMMV. 
_________________
1974 Thing -- under the knife
1967 Beetle -- spring/summer/fall driver
1996 Subaru OBW (EJ22, 5-speed, AWD) -- winter car, 3-seasons "don't feel like biking today" car
049 > 070 > 053 > 009 |
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Ferretkona
Samba Member
Joined: December 03, 2005
Posts: 1306
Location: Columbia, CA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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| tjensen3618 wrote: |
Does the '73 and later use an IRS setup?
I talked to a guy who was selling one with the RGBs and he said his top speed was about 55MPH. I want mine for light off-roading and some highway use. Should I be looking for a 73-74 in that case and not bother with the pre 73's?
Thank you |
Yes, 73 and newer have IRS.
72 and older had single port engines that I believe were 1500 cc. So the reduction boxes were helpful.
I think a pre 73 could still be a winner. The swingaxle transmisions were stronger, if you are needing higher road speed you could just get a different ring and pinion as I did in a old 59 type 2. |
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Skorzeny's G Ride
Samba Member
Joined: July 10, 2007
Posts: 291
Location: Gods curse on humanity...The Arizona Desert
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| Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:56 pm Post subject: .. |
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100kpm's is good. I have the same deal. My engine is in tip top shape with a new tune up and the reduction box. I prefer to stay at or under 100kpm. After driving it a while you can tell the power loss after 100kpm isn't worth going that fast and possibly over heating it isnt' worth it. But for now i've noticed its worth it. Quick story and true. My house has irrigation in the front yard and my 2wd tacoma got stuck in the mud pretty good this morning. Keep in mind both cars were in the mud. I used the kubel to pull it out of the mud like it was a little red wagon, no problem. I wish i had a video to show. Very capable and very impressive. Wait till you take it offroad.
hooray reduction gears!!!....And beer! |
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bucko
Samba Member
Joined: December 09, 2004
Posts: 2617
Location: Coppell, Texas
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:34 am Post subject: |
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| Towel Rail wrote: |
| Talosian wrote: |
| Towel Rail wrote: |
| With the RGBs on your '71, probably 60 MPH (100 km/h). |
Excuse my current ignorance, but what are RGBs?
Thanks. |
Reduction gear boxes. Pre-1973 181s used swingaxles and reduction gears to gain more ground clearance, much like a pre-1967 Bus. |
The reduction gear boxes were also installed on military versions of the 181 to compinsate for the lack of 4 wheel drive. The boxes reduced the final drive ratio significantly, allowing the 181 to drive through sandy roads, and climb some pretty steep inclines. The downfall was slower highway speeds (as you are experiencing). I'm assuming your 181 has the reduction boxes. You can remove the drive axles and reduction boxes and replace with a non reduction box setup, but for gods sake, don't throw the old parts away! They are worth some bucks, There are several folks that are willing to take them off your hands.
The original concept 181 was to have 4 wheel drive. Several were produced and sent to Australia for testing, but the 4 wheel drive unit was dropped, as VW had already put a price forward to the German military for so many units, and the 4 wheel drive setup was too costly. VW would have lost money on the contract. I met up with one of the original VW engineers that worked on the project back in 1968. He was totally pissed when VW dropped the 4 wheel drive, and felt the addition of the reduction boxes made the 181 "a piece of crap".
I'd like to know (and have) one of those original 4 wheel drive examples. I wonder where they are.....
_________________
Current VW drives: 1984 Westfalia
Past VW drives: 1967 Beetle, 1973 Beetle, 1977 Bus, 1971 Military Type 181 |
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1961bluebug
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2002
Posts: 1137
Location: Czech Republic, Europe
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:58 am Post subject: |
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never heard of a VW 181 with four wheel drive..any documents or pictures of this?
My military RGB 181 can go 90KPH (60 MPH) doesnīt matter if uphill or downhill on the freeway as the top and cruising speed at the same time. As I donīt do offroading, Iīm considering to add an IRS pivot points to the frame and convert to IRS or to install a 3.44 ring and pinion to the RGB gearbox to improve highway speeds.
_________________
|82x94|
1961 Deluxe beetle, 1971 type 181, 1968 T2a Baywindow, 1973 Type 147 "Swiss Fridolin"(sold), 1966 Deluxe sedan (sold), 1983 "Silver Bug" edition (sold), 1961 beetle (sold) |
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bucko
Samba Member
Joined: December 09, 2004
Posts: 2617
Location: Coppell, Texas
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:27 am Post subject: |
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| 1961bluebug wrote: |
never heard of a VW 181 with four wheel drive..any documents or pictures of this?
My military RGB 181 can go 90KPH (60 MPH) doesnīt matter if uphill or downhill on the freeway as the top and cruising speed at the same time. As I donīt do offroading, Iīm considering to add an IRS pivot points to the frame and convert to IRS or to install a 3.44 ring and pinion to the RGB gearbox to improve highway speeds. |
Only "documentation" is that of the German engineer I talked with that worked on the Type 181 project in 1968. There were 7 engineers originally that were assigned to the project. They produced "several" 4 wheel drive prototypes and tested them in Australia. However, VW (as I stated in my first post) pulled the plug on the 4 wheel drive setup, as it was too costly to produce, at the price they had already quoted to the German military (the original customer of the 181). So, VW installed reduction boxes that were already available from VW buses as a cheap substitute. That pissed off this engineer. He quit and retired shortly afterword. He now lives in Central Florida. We call him the "cat man", as he drives around the local 'hoods feeding stray cats. He also owned a 47 VW Beetle. He was one of the first to have imported it into Canada, then the U.S. I saw pictures of him with this Beetle. He's a cool guy to sit and talk with, which I have done many times.
What happened to the "prototypes"? I have no clue. How many "prototypes" were built with this 4 wheel drive? My engineer friend said 5 were built and shipped to Australia for testing. Would I give my eye teeth for one? You bet!
_________________
Current VW drives: 1984 Westfalia
Past VW drives: 1967 Beetle, 1973 Beetle, 1977 Bus, 1971 Military Type 181 |
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Skorzeny's G Ride
Samba Member
Joined: July 10, 2007
Posts: 291
Location: Gods curse on humanity...The Arizona Desert
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| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:19 pm Post subject: ... |
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| I wasn't aware the non-military versions were fitted with reduction boxes. Mine came with it but its a 1970 someone shipped a while back. So im guessing it was an option available from the factory. |
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Pierre G
Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2007
Posts: 1771
Location: New Caledonia
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| Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:21 am Post subject: |
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Military and civilian versions were fitted with swingaxle and reduction boxes from 1969 to 1973 in Europe. Then they were fitted with IRS, without RGB (1974-1978). Both swingaxles and IRS had the (now) very sought after limited slip diferential option.
_________________
1976 181/Thing, 1967 fastback, 1973 squareback, 1964 microbus, 1967 Double Cab, 1969 westfalia (currently under resto), 1972 LM1C dune buggy, 1974 jean's bug, 1974 1303 (super beetle, currently under reassembly after new paint). |
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1961bluebug
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2002
Posts: 1137
Location: Czech Republic, Europe
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| Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 2:42 am Post subject: |
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some of them had the LSD some of them dont. My 69 had an LSD, my 71 doesnīt have but as I donīt do any offroading, I donīt miss it.
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|82x94|
1961 Deluxe beetle, 1971 type 181, 1968 T2a Baywindow, 1973 Type 147 "Swiss Fridolin"(sold), 1966 Deluxe sedan (sold), 1983 "Silver Bug" edition (sold), 1961 beetle (sold) |
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Bruce
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003
Posts: 17290
Location: Left coast, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 1:16 am Post subject: |
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| 1961bluebug wrote: |
| some of them had the LSD some of them dont..... |
some of them had the LSD most of them don't.
_________________
| overheard at the portland Swap Meet... wrote: |
| ..... a steering wheel made from a mastadon tusk..... |
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