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halfgut
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 4:32 pm    Post subject: An Excellent Article Reply with quote

This article was posted in the "Super" Forum and I thought it pertained to us as well. I would like to hear what you all think.

http://www.malcolmgladwell.com/2004/2004_01_12_a_suv.html

halfgut
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Captain Spalding
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 5:30 pm    Post subject: Re: An Excellent Article Reply with quote

halfgut wrote:
This article was posted in the "Super" Forum and I thought it pertained to us as well. I would like to hear what you all think.


While mildly interested, I was mostly offended by many of the article's points about the psychology of the car buyer and perceived vs. real safety, with its Freudian references to rounded interior parts and cup holders dispensing warm liquids into the mouths of infantile drivers. It seems to cram all SUV buyers under the umbrella of that one psychology. There are many reasons we buy SUVs besides a lack of confidence in our own driving skills or having never been breast fed.

Where I live, it is mandatory to keep your child in a child seat until he or she is 6 years old or 60 pounds. Policies abound that push us toward carpooling. It is not uncommon to have three children under six, or two children and a friend, etc. in the back seat at the same time. These realities do more to shape the opinion of the car buyer than the subtleties described in the article.

Praised, in the article, is the intellect of the drivers of the nimble Porsche Boxter, or VW Jetta. And while those cars may be suitable for single people and DINKs, they and their ilk are woefully impractical for the family. It is not possible to seat three people across in the back seat of a Jetta when car seats are involved. In my youth, most families had a full sized station wagon (I don't know of any being manufactured now.) To get the functionality of a station wagon, you have two choices: the SUV and the minivan. I agree that the offroading capabilities of 95% of most SUVs will never be tested, so I don't count that as the reason that SUVs are so much more popular than minivans. Perlhaps it is the sheer lack of charisma of the minivan that makes the SUV a better seller.

As safety relates to aircooled VWs, I would suppose that almost any car made within the last 10 years is safer than any ACVW. Even without the help of Mr. Nader, we must be forced to reckon that compared to its modern brethren, the vintage VW could hardly be considered a safe car. Clearly, for most of us, safety is not the primary concern.


It is, however, in the words of Obi-wan Kenobi, a more elegant weapon, for a more civilized age. Oops, I think that Obi-Wan reference just destroyed all my credibility.
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Thingggg
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How the S.U.V. ran over automotive safety.

Is there an AC SUV Laughing
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Towel Rail
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Damn right there is! (Or was...)

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bmwloco
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 6:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I liked the article. Well written, and gee-whiz, over an 8th grade reading level!

I have my own theory why people bought SUVs: Fear. The same reason people want to live in gated communities. Fear.

If that's what it takes to prop up their fragile egos, all the better. Baaa Baaa.

Keep exploiting resources, keep living large, keep excluding yourself from the population as a whole. When all hell breaks loose, I know where I'm going first. There's gotta be good stuff in those gated McMansions...

Me? I'll pass you in your bloated SUV in my antique Thing.

Reuse, Recycle, Re-Flog.
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Captain Spalding
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bmwloco wrote:
. . . I'll pass you in your bloated SUV in my antique Thing.

if you commuted in bumper-to-bumper traffic for 15 hours per week, like many of my fellow Angelinos, you might think a little more kindly of the SUV driver, who just wants a quiet comfortable space to endure the monotony.
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halfgut
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did like his point that the more unsafe you feel in a vehicle the safer and more aware you drive. That's probably why I drive so well in my Thing.
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Thingggg
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If people in the US did not drive SUV or other trucks we would import 0 oil and 3000+ soldiers would still be alive.

Yeh me and Alen Greenspan are just crazy liberals. Wink

Former US Federal Reserve chief Alan Greenspan famously spills the beans in his new memoir, The Age of Turbulence: "I am saddened that it is politically inconvenient to acknowledge what everyone knows: the Iraq war is largely about oil."
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Captain Spalding
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alsehendo34 wrote:
If people in the US did not drive SUV or other trucks we would import 0 oil and 3000+ soldiers would still be alive.


Uh . . . right. And the millions of commuters on L.A. freeways could get to work on cow flatulence and good intentions . . .

There are plenty of SUVs that get better mileage than the average Thing. The idea that they are gas hogs by definition is outdated. I'm not saying the war isn't about oil, just that it is naïve to pillory the SUV for it.
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Woreign
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The US and other interest groups need to allow the import/manufacture of fuel efficient vehicles. For example, the Smart Car sold in Europe gets 60+MPG. The Smart Cars to be sold in the US are advertised at 40+MPG.
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bmwloco
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Come see me if you want to see better fuel economy.

New Jetta and Sportwagen TDI models: 140 hp, 235 ft. pounds of torque. 40 city, 60 hwy.

They'll be arriving March/April/May. Tiguan TDI to follow in the fall.
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halfgut
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had no idea that this post would turn political and I walked away from this post a number of times before deciding to write. But it hacks me off to hear someone spout the line about live lost in Iraq and how if it weren't for oil interests none of this would have happened. Whether the war in Iraq is over oil or not is irrelevant. What is relevant is that through our military, and the deaths of American soldiers, we have preserved the lives of thousands of Iraqi citizens and due to their efforts we have not had a terrorist attack on our soil in over 6 years.

Remember, we have an all volunteer military that train to do what they do and have signed on the dotted line knowing full well what is at risk. Isn't it amazing that there are people willing to put their lives on the line for something they believe in - the preservation and protection of the US and our way of life - including the right to own a stinkin' huge SUV, or a crappy piece of VW. Remembering that there are men in harms way right now while we talk about our cars makes what we talk about here seem, if not silly, at least humbling.

People who say they oppose the war but support our troops have no idea what it means to support our troops. You cannot simultaneously despise the war and support our troops who are fighting the very war you despise.
I would venture to guess that most people who uses military deaths as a talking point have never been in the military, don't have family in the military or might not even know someone in the military. If they did they would not use the numbers so lightly.

Over ten thousand people per year die in subcompact cars that get 30+ mpg. Why aren't people outraged about this? Why don't people throw this number around saying that we all need to build bigger cars to keep the people of the US safe.

I'm sorry if I've offended anyone and when I have issues with my car I hope someone will still offer to help. However, even though I may be stranded on the side of the road with all you whizzing by at less than 55 I still feel better for having said it.

BTW Consumer reports said the Smart Car was the worst car they had ever tested.

If you are interested in seeing what's going on in the war through the eye of a soldier go to:


http://michaelyon-online.com/[url]
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Thingggg
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

haftrack you reading your own article?
Among the safest cars are the midsize imports, like the Toyota Camry and the Honda Accord. Is what I read.

If you want to drive an SUV fine with me just pay the real price of gas.

You cannot simultaneously despise the war and support our troops who are fighting the very war you despise.
Good point, but If they were not there they would not die.

Uh . . . right. And the millions of commuters on L.A. free ways could get to work on cow flatulence and good intentions . . .
No just US and Canadian oil with 40 mpg cars.

This is going to make many here mad, but if you drive your Thing exclusively you are part of the problem, however, average truck SUV gas mileage is more like 14 in stop and go traffic, My thing is more like 25. I do have 40mpg car as a primary driver--$900 89 Golf.

The worst thing the rich that can afford these $50k trucks and private jets are getting the biggest subsidies--being the price of war and terrorist attacks that are not added to the cost of oil. Alen Greenspan in his new book says tax gas $3.00 gallon, this would pay for wars fought over it--then let the consumer decide. Read his new book it is enlightening!

People are waking up and the market do away the truck SUV so this pretty much a stupid argument--just pointing out facts. We can't go on fighting the rest of the world for cheep oil forever. They are getting to rich and can buy weapons with the very money we give them for oil.

I for one am very happy when the price of gas goes to $3.50+. I wish it would go to $5.00 and force development of alternatives or just make people buy fuel efficient cars. Then we have an an Ethanol plant in town so I my be prejudice.


Last edited by Thingggg on Sun Sep 30, 2007 2:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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bmwloco
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Time out.

Let's just stop here. It's about Things.
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halfgut
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another point missed another question not answered. Alas.

I think I'll just go back to painting my Thing red, white and blue!

I've said all that I'm going to say. I'm willing to quit.

halfgut
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Thingggg
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Time out.
bmwloco why because your selling a "crappy piece of VW" Laughing

Red, white and blue car made by a German company assembled in Mexico Wink

Why not just drive a chevy if you feel that way.
Again I live in the Midwest were we make cars and may thus may be prejudice.
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Captain Spalding
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Guys, guys, guys! Don't you see this is just what the
terrorists want us to do? The war is out there, man!
Out there! Now, pull it together!

— Joe, Team America
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Towel Rail
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been considering a Subaru lately. Those are Japanese-American, at least the '90s-present ones. Wink
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1996 Subaru OBW (EJ22, 5-speed, AWD) -- winter car, 3-seasons "don't feel like biking today" car

049 > 070 > 053 > 009
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Big Luni
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

alsehendo34 wrote:
Why not just drive a chevy if you feel that way.


My other car is a 2006 Chevy. Both the '06 Chevy and the '74 Thing are "Hencho en Mexico."
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halfgut
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chevy, Saturn, VW, Specialized, Nike, champion, skin (car, car, car, Bike, shoes, socks & foot - in that order).
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