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53 0val
Samba Professor
Joined: July 03, 2003
Posts: 11396
Location: Irvine, CA
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 Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 9:57 am Post subject: KDF brochure information |
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Be careful on this item. The missing back page is the best way to tell if it is real and not a reproduction. Paper can be aged, and without the back page........... 
Reproductions are available on German eBay at that price complete. The real ones are very expensive. 
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=511649
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johnshenry 
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2001
Posts: 9364
Location: Northwood, NH USA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:23 am Post subject: |
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What is different about the back page Bob (on a brochure that has it....)
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John Henry
'57 Deluxe
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53 0val
Samba Professor
Joined: July 03, 2003
Posts: 11396
Location: Irvine, CA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:42 am Post subject: |
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| johnshenry wrote: |
| What is different about the back page Bob (on a brochure that has it....) |
It has an embossed swastika and other Third Reich markings.
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Seb67
Samba Member
Joined: December 02, 2003
Posts: 1006
Location: New England
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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So this isn't the last page?
Edit: Or are you talking about this?
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53 0val
Samba Professor
Joined: July 03, 2003
Posts: 11396
Location: Irvine, CA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Seb67 wrote: |
So this isn't the last page?
Edit: Or are you talking about this?
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The top page; and it requires the swastika to be embossed within cogwheel. There are also DRGM markings as well.
Your picture is the typical reproduction void of any embossing or 3rd Reich markings. Your last two pictures are not even from the same document.
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opiesskate
Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2005
Posts: 75
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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here's one of mine. I have two of these and the swastika is not embossed
on either.
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johnshenry
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2001
Posts: 9364
Location: Northwood, NH USA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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I have that brochure shown in the last 2 pics above. Bob, how can you tell if that one is original? I surely paid an "original" price for it many years ago.......
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53 0val
Samba Professor
Joined: July 03, 2003
Posts: 11396
Location: Irvine, CA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry you guys............................those things have been re-poped several different times. I know of only 6 (six) originals in 30 years of collecting. Your odds are not good. The original material was "beautiful" compared to the reproductions................. The paper is better......the colors are true......the embossing is precise. It's all about quality.
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r39o
Samba Polizei
Joined: May 18, 2005
Posts: 9800
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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| 53 0val wrote: |
| Sorry you guys............................It's all about quality. |
To myself I always wonder why they even bother to make the stuff that is not (almost) a dead nuts copy.
It only fools those who want to believe it is an original item.
Sad. |
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53 0val
Samba Professor
Joined: July 03, 2003
Posts: 11396
Location: Irvine, CA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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| johnshenry wrote: |
| I have that brochure shown in the last 2 pics above. Bob, how can you tell if that one is original? I surely paid an "original" price for it many years ago....... |
Can't help you on that one John...................
I know the brochure and I've seen an original; I just don't know the differences. I'm sure someone in here does though.
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steven wood
Samba Member
Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 1647
Location: Virginia, NOT West Virginia!
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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| 53 0val wrote: |
| Sorry you guys............................those things have been re-poped several different times. I know of only 6 (six) originals in 30 years of collecting. Your odds are not good. The original material was "beautiful" compared to the reproductions................. The paper is better......the colors are true......the embossing is precise. It's all about quality. |
Theres enough of these books going around, the early repros have finally turned in to the originals now. I've "almost" bought one of these books about a hundred times but never have. Bob always seems to come in here and kick you in the nuts when you think you have rare  |
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53 0val
Samba Professor
Joined: July 03, 2003
Posts: 11396
Location: Irvine, CA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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| r39o wrote: |
| 53 0val wrote: |
| Sorry you guys............................It's all about quality. |
To myself I always wonder why they even bother to make the stuff that is not (almost) a dead nuts copy.
It only fools those who want to believe it is an original item.
Sad. |
They COULD bleach the "correct" period paper making sure not to use modern bleaching agents the would "black-light".........use the correct dyes from non synthetic compounds that could not be tested....tool up the precise dies for embossing........ Hire experts for these skills and buy their silence. Then track down and sell these new "originals" to the few people who really have the interest and money.......
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53 0val
Samba Professor
Joined: July 03, 2003
Posts: 11396
Location: Irvine, CA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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| steven wood wrote: |
| 53 0val wrote: |
| Sorry you guys............................those things have been re-poped several different times. I know of only 6 (six) originals in 30 years of collecting. Your odds are not good. The original material was "beautiful" compared to the reproductions................. The paper is better......the colors are true......the embossing is precise. It's all about quality. |
Theres enough of these books going around, the early repros have finally turned in to the originals now. I've "almost" bought one of these books about a hundred times but never have. Bob always seems to come in here and kick you in the nuts when you think you have rare |
Get a 'cup' Steven..........
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Brezelwerks
Samba Member
Joined: March 17, 2003
Posts: 1421
Location: Tyngsboro, MA
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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| 53 0val wrote: |
| r39o wrote: |
| 53 0val wrote: |
| Sorry you guys............................It's all about quality. |
To myself I always wonder why they even bother to make the stuff that is not (almost) a dead nuts copy.
It only fools those who want to believe it is an original item.
Sad. |
They COULD bleach the "correct" period paper making sure not to use modern bleaching agents the would "black-light".........use the correct dyes from non synthetic compounds that could not be tested....tool up the precise dies for embossing........ Hire experts for these skills and buy their silence. Then track down and sell these new "originals" to the few people who really have the interest and money....... |
The same issue has been going on in the sports trading card hobby for a long time, where much bigger money is involved. But at least there are paid experts in that field today to authenticate the originality of the card. With printed material from the past being so easy to replicate and age nearly undetectably, the temptation is large enough to focus on every detail. In this hobby (for now anyways) there hasn't been any formal sources for authenticating things. I intend to cover some literature collectibles in the future with the help of several experts (Bob et al....), something I'm working on now, as we're at a point in the hobby which could really stand to benefit from clarity. Its not a good thing in the hobby when people hesitate to buy or collect when they don't know what they are looking at, it just stagnates the hobby.
Gary |
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virtanen
Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2006
Posts: 1461
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 9:27 am Post subject: |
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| opiesskate wrote: |
here's one of mine. I have two of these and the swastika is not embossed
on either.
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Is there on right side vertical text "WALDHEIM EBERLE A.G. WIEN VII"? |
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opiesskate
Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2005
Posts: 75
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 9:55 am Post subject: |
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Yep!
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johnshenry
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2001
Posts: 9364
Location: Northwood, NH USA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 10:22 am Post subject: |
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| 53 0val wrote: |
| johnshenry wrote: |
| I have that brochure shown in the last 2 pics above. Bob, how can you tell if that one is original? I surely paid an "original" price for it many years ago....... |
Can't help you on that one John...................
I know the brochure and I've seen an original; I just don't know the differences. I'm sure someone in here does though. |
I heard once that there was a number on the back of the repros, that is why when you talked about the back page of the other one, I thought I would ask.
Is this (lit) stuff discussed in the Accessories forum?
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53 0val
Samba Professor
Joined: July 03, 2003
Posts: 11396
Location: Irvine, CA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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| johnshenry wrote: |
| 53 0val wrote: |
| johnshenry wrote: |
| I have that brochure shown in the last 2 pics above. Bob, how can you tell if that one is original? I surely paid an "original" price for it many years ago....... |
Can't help you on that one John...................
I know the brochure and I've seen an original; I just don't know the differences. I'm sure someone in here does though. |
I heard once that there was a number on the back of the repros, that is why when you talked about the back page of the other one, I thought I would ask.
Is this (lit) stuff discussed in the Accessories forum? |
I don't think it has been discussed before in there........maybe in passing.
I really didn't know where to alert the most interested parties the fastest.
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53 0val
Samba Professor
Joined: July 03, 2003
Posts: 11396
Location: Irvine, CA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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I just contacted an owner of an "original" and he said that only the press-release show copies (Berlin 1939) were embossed. It is possible the the ones with the non-embossed swastika could be VW issue.........but the ones without the swastikas were a re-print. Hundreds of originals were handed out but he went on to say that there were less than one dozen known show copies. He sold his over two years ago for a couple of thousand EURO to VW. The "swastika" ones were re-printed by the British soon after the war using original equipment and are almost impossible to distinguish from the war issue ones. He went on to say that there was also a piece of vellum on the inside covers that protected the print from a post card that was also part of the handout but his did not have a card with it. He also noted that the staples should be from the top side and should show "rust"..........this is important to help identify the "later" reproductions. He does not remember the size of the staples, but he thought they were at least a cm longer that the standard staples used after the war by VW for their owner's manuals. Most of the real VW Third Reich never gets to the net.
Hope this helps and I didn't distress too many of you at first. I for one, would rather not worry about all this detail, but I would definitely buy one from a know literature collector and not trust eBay with finding me the right seller.
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opiesskate
Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2005
Posts: 75
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| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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What about the A-Z manual. I used to have this one for sale. but ive
decided to keep it. Figure I wont ever get another one. Were there
ever early repo's of this. Im pretty convinced this is original. but
lets see if anyone wants to prove me wrong.
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