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colorider181
Samba Member
Joined: September 05, 2007
Posts: 39
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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 Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:51 pm Post subject: Leanin' Thing |
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My 74 tilts to the drivers side by about an inch in the front and quarter inch in the back. I thought first it was a problem in the rear but equaling the tire pressure in the back  , almost evened things out. I have noticed that the front driver side tire leans out (top side out), and there is some play (nothing major, but noticeable compared to the passenger side) if I push the tire. I haven't found any obvious bends or twisting of the frame/pan/front end, but I might not be looking in the right place.
I'm assuming I have a ball joint issue, but would this cause an inch of difference in the two sides?
...and yes the tires have equal pressure in the front....now. |
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kuebelwagen84
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Joined: March 15, 2007
Posts: 144
Location: Edison, NJ
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:58 pm Post subject: Re: Leanin' Thing |
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| colorider181 wrote: |
My 74 tilts to the drivers side by about an inch in the front and quarter inch in the back. I thought first it was a problem in the rear but equaling the tire pressure in the back , almost evened things out. I have noticed that the front driver side tire leans out (top side out), and there is some play (nothing major, but noticeable compared to the passenger side) if I push the tire. I haven't found any obvious bends or twisting of the frame/pan/front end, but I might not be looking in the right place.
I'm assuming I have a ball joint issue, but would this cause an inch of difference in the two sides?
...and yes the tires have equal pressure in the front....now. |
If it was a ball joint issue I think you'd notice a difference depending on the tire's placement or rotation... Maybe it's a shock problem, I had a bit of a lean on my Thing and when I just replaced all my shocks with new GR-2s the lean disappeared
As for checking the frame, check the area where the rocker panel meets the front clip, sometimes that can be bent a little and because it's already bent it might be difficult to see... That wound up being what was throwing my fender alignment off and it took me awhile before I finally noticed it
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// '73 Thing "Jeep Zerstörer" currently being restored / kustomized
// '07 Rabbit taking over daily driver duties
1600s of air-cooled German muscle! |
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colorider181
Samba Member
Joined: September 05, 2007
Posts: 39
Location: Fort Collins, CO
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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| I was planning on changing the shocks soon. I just wasn't sure if that would possibly fix it - I'll give it a try - thanks |
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Ian Epperson
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Joined: January 12, 2005
Posts: 2262
Location: Alameda, CA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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Going to disagree with kuebelwagen84, if the ball joints are bad, the wheel will not wobble consistently - jacking up the car and spinning the wheel will not show you anything. However, speaking as someone who had the worst ball joints you could possibly have, I'll tell you that they don't cause a lean when they go bad. You'd have to seriously damage them to do that - probably so much that you couldn't steer the car! What they will do (when bad) is make it hard to drive strait as they'll let the wheel meander this way and that.
I think you're describing two problems - one is that the car is sagging in the left front, and the other is that the left wheel is leaning outward (negative camber). The only ways they could relate is if the upper trailing arm is falling out and has disengaged from the springs within the front beam, or the upper springs are completely broken and the trailing arm is sliding off. If that's the case DO NOT DRIVE THE CAR as your entire wheel may fall out. It's pretty easy to check, look under the front. You'll see two tubes running along the front (your front beam) and on the end of these tubes, on each side, attach two trailing arms. There's a lip on the trailing arm, and a seal between it and the front beam. The seal should be tight up against the metal (no gaps). Internally, these trailing arms are keyed and fit over the end of long torsion springs that are encased in those tubes in the front beam. If it moves out enough, it could fall off the end of the spring, and it wouldn't hold up the front end anymore. Unlikely, but it could happen.
More likely these two problems are separate. So...
Sagging left-front side is almost always caused by a broken torsion spring inside the front beam. Replacing it will require the entire front-end to be dismantled - during which you'll probably find other issues to fix ( you mentioned the ball joints ). After reassembly, you'll have to get an alignment, which will fix the second issue...
The left-front wheel is either wobbling on a bad bearing, or simply mis-adjusted. There's an adjustment nut (actually, it's an offset balljoint mount) that you turn to move the top of the wheel in and out by about an inch. Without the proper tools, it's impossible to set correctly - your best bet is to get a professional alignment by a shop that knows old VW's and is set up to do such work. (My local VW shop doesn't do alignment, but recommended a different shop for the work).
A shock absorber normally will not affect how the car sits in a steady-state. It just absorbs road shocks. The springs normally do the work of holding up the front end of the car. If the springs break, your car will sag to the ground very quickly - as fast as the shocks will let it  . Some shock absorbers also have a spring built into them. The KYB Gas-a-justs and some of the cheapo coil-overs will not just absorb shocks, but also push up on the front end. The problem with that is the shock towers now take up the extra weight, instead of the tubes within the front beam, and it may be very hard to get everything adjusted correctly. If you use these to fix the springs, know that you're only putting a band-aid on the real problem, and may cause other issues (breaking the shock towers on a hard bump, twisted front beam, broken trailing arm, uneven handling as the spring rate is different on each side, etc.)
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