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morymob Samba Member
Joined: November 09, 2007 Posts: 4683 Location: east-tn
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Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 10:50 pm Post subject: head gasket repair description |
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1st wbx in92 with bad hd gasket. after 3 split ones in4mo/2wrecker bills this tested my patience.stopped at Gasket supply whe & they suggested their 1/4" hi-temp silicone sheet & make some.(RED) 2-3 tries to get pattern correct & cut easily with exacto knife-go slow. cut 1/4" larger than o.s. of head & no holes covered.clean gasket mating surface & run narrow bead of silicone around incenter-center gasket on head & place board on with a weight(brick etc)until cured.check seal position & place on board seal down-trace o.s. of head with pen.place head,prod tubes inplace & instl head touching block. NOW check tracing--if still ok seal in correct pos.torque heads with BEAM wrench-ADDING 5 lbs as gasket is 50thsnd thicker. myne been on 11yrs with a cyl seal replace 3 yrs ago/reused seals.2 other wbxs had same & run 2+ years each.use your own judgement as tothis --works for me |
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VanagOnly Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2007 Posts: 81 Location: NYC,NY
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Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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What _________________ 87 Wolfie
Past rides:72 Bus- RIP
72 Volvo 145 wagon-RIP
76 Jeep Wagoneer-RIP
67 Bug Dad's Daily-Project |
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morymob Samba Member
Joined: November 09, 2007 Posts: 4683 Location: east-tn
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Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:04 am Post subject: |
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had to shorten up post due to a inactivity timer somewhere kicking me back to index page. this repair method of mine was developed in 93-94 on 1st wbx. call it what u want but it is cheap(1sq foot does both heads at my cost of approx $15-). I dont sell material,get t from local gasket supply. They said should be at any gasket material supplier. my local one is at(www.grpbristol.com) will ship if u need.T his seal was tested under norm pressure of engine for abut 8mo while i discovered all the other leaks ,burst hose,h-pipe,etc. That was solved by 1ST getting cooling sys up to par & taking pressure off sys by 1/16" drill hole in press cap. This a daily driver-318K+ with all on drive cond up to 106F. no change to norm temp range or lss of coolant. I think these changes + good maint has made the 3wbxs very reliable.scary sometimes. glad to answer any other questions. |
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wavanagon Samba Member
Joined: September 17, 2007 Posts: 400 Location: Everett, WA
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Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:44 am Post subject: |
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So, let me see if I read this correctly: You are purchasing 1/4 inch hi-temp silicon sheet, tracing gasket pattern from a head(1/4" wider, outside diameter), essentially glue it onto the head w/ silicone sealant, then install? Is that correct?
And this has held up for 11 years? how many miles have you logged on this install? i know you said your van has 318K, but is that on this gasket? also, you said that they are very reliable, then you said scary sometimes, what do you mean by that? tx
if this works, be prepared for a lot of emails! thanks for sharing! _________________ 1988 Vanagon GL - For Sale
1987 Westfalia
2008 Audi A4 2.0T
http://wavanagon.googlepages.com
Dirty from working on your Vanagon? Buy soap from my wife!
http://www.teatreesoap.com |
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klucz Samba Member
Joined: February 14, 2006 Posts: 1062 Location: Chicago, IL
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Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 10:24 am Post subject: |
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While you're typing your post, click the preview button every few minutes to stay logged in. If you forget and the thing resets, just open another window and log in again, then you will be able to submit your post in either window. |
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PDXWesty Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2006 Posts: 6235 Location: Portland OR
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Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 10:31 am Post subject: |
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You can also type what you want to say in a word program, which shouldn't time you out, get it as long and accurate as you want, then cut and paste it into the Samba forum in an instant. That should help too. |
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allsierra123 Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2006 Posts: 1462 Location: Tecate, Baja California MX
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Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 10:42 am Post subject: |
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WOW that is a really good mod if it doable.But Im wondering if the stock head gasket would do that well if the thing were babied for 11 years.I just cant help but wonder if were are compairing apples to oranges. But in any event if it works at all it is a cheaper way to go. _________________ 95 GMC Yukon 6.5 TD 2 Door Tow pig/ Daily driver.
91 Vanagon GL. 1.9TD Conversion Sold
81 Vw rabbit 1.6 Diesel. Sold |
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morymob Samba Member
Joined: November 09, 2007 Posts: 4683 Location: east-tn
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Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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this mod was done in 96 (2nd wbx done) with rings bearings seals clutch etc at 173K .has not been babied-is a daily driver & the one we use to travel. avg 1 675+ mile trip to nashvill a month for 5yrs when daughter & grand kid lived there. now go north 500+ for same .i runbetween 65-70 on I-81.anyone knows smokey loves it also so dont need 150+ ticket. this my speed all time. only reason gasket glued to hd is to hold it in place to be installed. i had to do liner to head reseal 3yrs ago(compression leak) both stayed stuck and i reused them. all wbxs (4) ive owned bought with bad seals. current keeper(syncro) ran all las winter & now eng ready to be re-assembled had oval rod caps & readyto go. these seals will be pt back in - i plan to drive the same. thanks. |
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morymob Samba Member
Joined: November 09, 2007 Posts: 4683 Location: east-tn
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Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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forgot something,anyone curious about seal staying in place,i mentioned in earlier post it being appx50tho thicker than same area of orig + iadd 5lbs to torque to compensate. ran 1st one appx 8mo under norm pressure before i made another change to remedy variety of leaks as mentioned also. with a total of approx170k miles between 4 vans im pretty confident MY problem solved.thanks again |
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D Clymer Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2005 Posts: 2978 Location: Issaquah, WA
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Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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That fix sounds reasonable to me. I've been studying head gasket problems on some wbx engines I've torn down recently and concluded that the reason the factory sealant doesn't prevent corrosion is because it gets mostly squished out upon tightening and thus doesn't prevent water seepage into the aluminum/rubber area.
I can see how letting your home made gasket cure to the head while disassembled would allow the gasket to get a complete seal which would seal even better under compression.
I was thinking of putting sealant on the standard wbx gasket and mounting it to a degreased head prior to assembly - and then mounting it as a unit after it had cured. I wonder if that would have the same effect.
Thanks for sharing. If you have any pictures of your homemade gaskets, that would be cool.
David |
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Randy in Maine Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2003 Posts: 34890 Location: The Beach
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morymob Samba Member
Joined: November 09, 2007 Posts: 4683 Location: east-tn
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Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:17 am Post subject: |
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WAVANAGON: yes -11yrs is on this 84 set of seals & my approx 140k of miles. I did have the usual (set) of issues when i 1st bought it. Leaking heads,intermitten tps,ox sensor shield short to center led at times,stuck open thermostat & some brake issues. Rebuilt brake sys,all grounds clleaned (this is a yearly-fall of yr thing i do) Just thoroug going over. I go over it every fall as i hate cold weather emerg repairs . Helps keep up the reliability & as wbxs go i do wonder at times when it is going to surprise me & grenade. As someone else wondered if i babied my van-NO. Last summer building a large screenporch i was at local builder supp & helpr & i rolled out a loaded cart of 18ft 2x6, 4x4,and lots of shorter pieces & 4x8 sheets.A guy watched us load up. Guess i should told of the 28 bundles of roof shingles &6bags of ready mix already loaded.Anyone know how much a pallot of bricks weigh? It will fit thru side door. Its cant be beat for use -my opinion. thanks..my email:[email protected] thanks |
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morymob Samba Member
Joined: November 09, 2007 Posts: 4683 Location: east-tn
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Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:34 am Post subject: |
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D CLYMER; sorry im not a camrea buff but will try to get a photo by someone. An easy to get pattern is put old seal on block,spread on flat surface of seal whatever u have (light coat of dark grease etc) now press a piece of stiff white paper to areas of seal & u will get a good outline.DONT forget to ADD 1/4 inch to outside of this outline so have room to trace head outline on the gasket-this i covered in my description earlier. If any Q on seal slipping-just take a scrap & put between hd & block & u will see the amount of compression & its shape-that is what holds it in place. Thanks |
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Alan Brase Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2004 Posts: 4532 Location: Cedar Falls, Iowa
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Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:38 am Post subject: |
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I've often thought that one could assemble one of these engines totally leaving out the black gaskets and then just filling the space with a high quality gasket maker product, like The Right Stuff. It would be pretty important to make sure the stuff completely cured before filling the system with coolant. It would really be nice to be able to pressure test it first.
I agree thet the reason for failure of the stock gaskets is because they have too little pressure and the coolant seeps under the edge and begins to corrode.
I, personally, do not have the time to develop such a fix, but it seems reasonable. Heck, if Morymob's gaskets work, it would be real easy to make them in batches. Either lasers or possibly water-jet cutting would be inexpensive for small batches.
Al _________________ Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home |
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Alan Brase Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2004 Posts: 4532 Location: Cedar Falls, Iowa
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Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:40 am Post subject: |
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Is that in a Sticky somewhere? It should be!!
Al _________________ Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home |
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morymob Samba Member
Joined: November 09, 2007 Posts: 4683 Location: east-tn
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Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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I reread d-clymers post of gluing stock gasket. I tried that also-to block+ the head but my prblm with all but 1 was they split in a bend somewhere.compared space between hd& block to another eng & was ok. The Last orig i used i got a drip when temp droppe 1st time in fall & stopped when run for a minute or so. Gasket had a thin spot & wouldnt compress enoughThere were no sharp edges on block to cause split. |
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morymob Samba Member
Joined: November 09, 2007 Posts: 4683 Location: east-tn
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Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 1:15 pm Post subject: HEAD GASKET PIC |
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THIS IS WHERE PICS WENT. ONE DIDNT MAKE IT-MY 1ST TIME. UNDER THIS TITLE. |
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