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Speedy
Samba Member
Joined: January 05, 2005
Posts: 166
Location: Cape Fort St. Port River Inlet Bay Coast Canal Beach, the median on Hurricane Highway, Florida.
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 Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 2:33 am Post subject: |
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| usariemen wrote: |
Hello
Here we have this one.
Note the round jack hole, made of a very early car.
Here another view.
And here are two more pics. The first one is quite common.
The second one, most will not know.
Is that the same car with updated rear view mirror?
Same strange hubcaps but on first pics color filled bumper groove and on later pics just chrome. |
Aside from the mirror and the top cover being different, the door windows are a totally different shape. And wouldn't the top have to match the windows?
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pimp
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Wanted:
A.J. Pierson VW Tag Frame - Orlando FL.
Original Solid Ragtop or Convertible Beetle In Central Florida!
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Undis
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2006
Posts: 1396
Location: Riga, Latvia & Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 4:19 am Post subject: |
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| Speedy wrote: |
Aside from the mirror and the top cover being different, the door windows are a totally different shape. And wouldn't the top have to match the windows? |
For this car being a prototype, it woud be logical that it was used as a test bed for items that later were used in the production models. Perhaps it was built with the top as seen in the first pictures, then an improved top was installed together with a new door window design etc. Whet we see in these photos is actually a progression of design before finalizing the production versions. Just a thought. |
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Patty B.
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Joined: July 14, 2005
Posts: 2181
Location: Brampton, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:32 am Post subject: |
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| LOVE those vents! |
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peter schepens
Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2003
Posts: 1014
Location: belgium Caesars camp
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| Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:02 am Post subject: hebmuller proto |
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The car that is seen in the Garden with the man behind the wheel is taken later.
I have a Pict on wich you see a production model hebmuller together with this one prototypee and the same driver. The pict is taken in the same garden. 
It is obvious that this car was updated with some production-model parts like the side windows, the frontwindowframe and bumbers...Maybe even more items but not sure of that.
To find out what cars are protos and on wich car the 14-xxxxx numbering was started with I have to meet some people first. It is on my scedual this year but until that time I will not say anything.. 
Maybe afterwards I will also say nothing.  .before I am 100% sure.
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Zelensis, glassfibre body made in Belgium , disigned and built on a VW platform About 25 body's built.
Hebmuller info wanted for http://www.hebmueller-registry.com/home.html |
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RichOakley
Samba Member
Joined: August 30, 2004
Posts: 1108
Location: Midlands, UK
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| Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:19 am Post subject: Re: hebmuller proto |
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| peter schepens wrote: |
The car that is seen in the Garden with the man behind the wheel is taken later.
I have a Pict on wich you see a production model hebmuller together with this one prototypee and the same driver. The pict is taken in the same garden. |
The two photographs in the garden above were taken before the end of 1949. |
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peter schepens
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Joined: April 17, 2003
Posts: 1014
Location: belgium Caesars camp
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Rich's 50
Samba Member
Joined: February 18, 2004
Posts: 10781
Location: San Diego, CA
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| Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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Undis
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2006
Posts: 1396
Location: Riga, Latvia & Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 3:47 am Post subject: Re: hebmuller proto |
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| peter schepens wrote: |
It is obvious that this car was updated with some production-model parts like the side windows, the frontwindowframe and bumbers...Maybe even more items but not sure of that.
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Good point on that windowframe! I noticed that too, but was not sure enough to say anything about it. In those pictures it is difficult to tell. It would be interesting to know if these updates were done to the prototype before the production models were finalized, or at the same time as the first production Hebs were being made. Anyhow, this is proof that Hebmuller factory put a lot of effort into getting the top and the front window frame right. |
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erioco
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Joined: February 05, 2004
Posts: 382
Location: St. Louis, MO
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| Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 11:04 am Post subject: Heb 3 |
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One other point:
I think that the first three prototypes were 2 seaters as originally built, look at the line of the rear part of the vert top - no room for two adults to fit under a raised top. (Also the Radclyffe was a 2 seater and these were virtual copies of the basic lines)
I would agree that the side windows, front windshield surround and the top were changed on at least one of the prototypes when they really decided to go full time 2+2. This must have been after all the other tech problems were solved ie flexing etc and they started at least some production of the final version. The rear lid could not be replaced because the length of the lid came up much higher on the rear body cutout than the 2+2 final production model did. The windows and the top and the windshield surround were easier to replace.
It would be interesting to know if the other two prototypes were also brought up to production specs in the same way. Also who got to keep them?
Eric
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Radclyffe Roadster Replica proj based on an April 47 chassis |
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usariemen
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Joined: August 28, 2004
Posts: 1745
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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Hello
Well, we still found no real answere to me.
Christian, you wrote:
"Hi Hebster,
i think you are wrong.
Chassis number of Heb Nr. 1 is 908XX and the chassis
numberof Heb Nr. 2 is 963XX
Heb 1 was black/red and Heb 2 was just black.
So Heb nr. 1 was on a December 1948 chassis wich had round
holders for the jack anf Heb 2 was on a Januar 1949 chassis with
also round holders.
They were not made out of 1946 cars.
Bye Christian "
I still can not believe that.
I still would say a december 1948 or even a febuary 1949 car would had not anymore been equipped with a round jack hole.
I thought the prototypes where not yet 14-xxxx numbered and made of
1947 or early 1948 cars.
To me it seemed to be that way:
First there was the Radclyffe roadster.
Then the Hebmüller prototype #1
Then the Heb prototype #2
Then the Heb prototype #3
And then the first mostly serial style Heb, to me 14-00001
That one was black/red and might had chassis nr. 908XX
Anyone with some more informations on all that?
Carsten
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peter schepens
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Joined: April 17, 2003
Posts: 1014
Location: belgium Caesars camp
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| Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 4:10 am Post subject: heb proto's ... |
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The last pict above , the black first serial car, as hebster wrote is correct
To say it is Heb 00001 is another thing and I can not proof this.
I believe that this car is still amongst us and it is complete and in good shape but it lost its hebnumber.
If this car was Heb 14-00001 it must be built before or on 30-march 1949 . Do not forget there was a Heb on the Geneva autoshow that was already in the shape of a production model. The show was held late march early april 49! and it was not Heb 00001.
To me, it is possible , and i am pretty sure about it but can not proof this , that one of the proto's was several times reworked , rebuild and checked by VW officials before the production model was ready.
Even Karmann was helped the same way and not only by VW....
The saga on the numbering of hebmullers will go on...
I have found out about this early car and I am sure you guys also can find it... You just have to look good.
That is all I can say about it. 
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Zelensis, glassfibre body made in Belgium , disigned and built on a VW platform About 25 body's built.
Hebmuller info wanted for http://www.hebmueller-registry.com/home.html |
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peter schepens
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Joined: April 17, 2003
Posts: 1014
Location: belgium Caesars camp
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| Posted: Thu May 26, 2011 10:13 am Post subject: |
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| Hebster52 wrote: |
The number 3 had 5 louver on each side of the rear decklid and was painted grey. It also had a chromed popesnose and stock hubcaps. Number 1 and 2 were painted black. Number 2 and 3 were basically indentical except for the colour and some details in the equipments such as the hubcaps and popesnose.
Number 1 was black and had 4 louvers on each side of the decklid.
This is the only photo I have seen of it online. Maybe there still are others out there?
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After looking a zilion times to heb picts I only noticed this evening that this car with the pedal car on his back is actualy a Two-tone car...the side panels are in a lighter color..Maybe Ivory.
Until today I can not find proof of the numbering on the proto's as 14-00001 and on. Not sure.
I must say that I stand next to Christian to believe his theory based on copy of documents . I wish I could see them once
What I did find out is that one car was used by Hebmüller , one was used by SCHULTZ and the third one was used as a versuchswagen.
About the date of the chassis on the cars...whould you think that end 48 -early 49 VW whould give new built body's and chassis to Hebmüller to make some prototypes... I think in that area of time, The reform of money , they used wrecked cars probably, maybe deliverd by vw, maybe by SCHULTZ. Who knows. 
Maybe one day, the history will be known on these cars, Maybe but we will need lots of luck and information. Meanwhile, I'll search further.
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Zelensis, glassfibre body made in Belgium , disigned and built on a VW platform About 25 body's built.
Hebmuller info wanted for http://www.hebmueller-registry.com/home.html |
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peter schepens
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Joined: April 17, 2003
Posts: 1014
Location: belgium Caesars camp
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| Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 1:44 pm Post subject: Re: pictures of heb number 3 anyone |
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update.
The proto heb Vin 1-963xx that was an all black car and in use by Gottfried Schultz as a test car, seen with the painted ribbed bumper was known as versuchswagen 14-2. Not sure if that was punched in the front but the documentation reads only versuchswagen 14-1 and 14-2.
Later at some point, that car got the official heb nummer 14-00001. The Vin nr that was written out as versuchwagen 2 is attached to both body's.
Or they repunched the number, or rebodied the chassis but as the picts show a reworked body... it is clear that they renamed the 14-2 into heb 14-00001.
And the car was send out on loan to MAHAG at 20/04/1949. It is unclear that the black paint was kept or it was repainted in grey. The date is for sure later than the Geneva show where the black and red Heb versuchswagen 14-4 was showed that was built by the R.Ringel workshop at Wolfsburg and was the final design of the type 14a.
This info is 100% correct as I have seen documents with 14-2 corresponding with the Vin and have seen a wagenbegleitkarte for the first 4 hebs
It took me a while to find out but now I can say, this part is cleared out.
The design of the proto heb with pope's nose was on paper somewhere in okt 1948.
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Zelensis, glassfibre body made in Belgium , disigned and built on a VW platform About 25 body's built.
Hebmuller info wanted for http://www.hebmueller-registry.com/home.html |
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Hebster52
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Joined: March 14, 2003
Posts: 1773
Location: Finland, Jakobstad
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