Author |
Message |
enikolayev Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2007 Posts: 22
|
Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 1:11 am Post subject: '74 porsche 914 subaru WRX engine swap |
|
|
I'm a 19 year old college student and recently my 914's engine gave out (lifter problem i presume) so instead of repairing the engine i ran across the idea of a WRX engine swap. The Subaru engine will be far more reliable and it will be much much more pleasant to drive in the car with the extra power.
I wanna hear what you guys think. Has anyone done this before? I'm open to suggestions. Also if anyone knows a good place to get 2 heads for a WRX engine for relatively cheap, don't hesitate to let me know.
Currently i have a wrx engine with bent valves. and a 914 on blocks with the engine/transmission removed.
here are some earlier pics of the car to keep this thread juicy
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
58cab Samba Member
Joined: August 28, 2005 Posts: 11 Location: Atl, Ga
|
Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 3:21 am Post subject: wrx in 914 |
|
|
There was an article in Excellence a couple of months back about this conversion. Didn't seem too difficult. What size engine do you have in the 914 now or was? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Bleyseng Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2005 Posts: 4752 Location: Seattle
|
Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 8:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
Far more reliable? Subies have their own set of problems....
914 motors if taken care of go 100-200k miles and ya don't have to drag around all that water! _________________ 70 Ghia Black convert-9/69 build date-stock w/133k 1600 SP-barn find now with a rebuilt tranny and engine
77 Westy 2.0L w/Ljet, Camper Special engine-95hp and with LSD!(sold)
76 Porsche 914 2.1L L20c, 120hp Djet (sold)
87 Syncro Westy Titan Red 2.1L 2 knob 100k miles |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Cohibra45 Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 299 Location: New Braunfels, Tx
|
Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 10:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
Your going to be adding a lot more weight!!!
Kelly |
|
Back to top |
|
|
enikolayev Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2007 Posts: 22
|
Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 12:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
"their own set of problems"? The subaru engine is '04 its far more reliable and better built!
And "taking care" of the 914 motor is exactly what i'm trying to avoid. I don't like babying it around. I want to flog it severely!
plus who cares about adding a few pounds! it will have so much more power. if your concerned about adding a few pounds, don't upgrade at all! heck don't even eat dinner.
if you guys haven't realized this already i want to go fast and do so reliably. a few pounds of water will not matter. I am specifically avoiding the porsche engine since i have had not so good past experiences with the whole carburator and air coooled thing, maybe i'm just not cut out for it, but those never seem to work properly. This is an attempt to amend all of that!
and to 58cab, Mine had a 1.8 in there... then engine is still sitting around near the car its for sale if anyone is interested. but if you can find me that artice about the conversion, please post the link. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Cohibra45 Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 299 Location: New Braunfels, Tx
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
enikolayev Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2007 Posts: 22
|
Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 2:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks for all of the info. As of right now, i'm getting rid of rust under the battery tray and doing some other body work. Waiting on my uncle to come take measurements of the porsche tranny and subaru engine so he can make me the adapter plate.
I will have to rebuild the transmission, how much does that usually cost?
here are some pics of my progress so far. engine out, repaired left rear quarter and starting on the battery tray rust.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Jake Raby Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2003 Posts: 7433 Location: Aircooled Heaven USA
|
Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 7:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
If you want a watercooled, radiator ladenn mid engined car just buy a friggin Fiero... They are cheap, disposable and don't have any character you can rape from them..
The original 914 engine is a tough son of a bitch IF done right with the right approach. No other engine has won more Baja 1000 off road races and that's 1000 miles @ WOT through the desert.
Keep it aircooled or you'll forever rape it of the one bit of character that sets it apart, actually making it a 914...
Yes, there is nothing I hate more than a damn radiator- |
|
Back to top |
|
|
enikolayev Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2007 Posts: 22
|
Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 9:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
What exactly do you mean by "charachter"? The car not starting in the morning when its frosty? or about having to think 5 min ahead before passing on the highway?
Maybe i should go back to the horse and buggy, now that has character! and speaking of horse and buggy, what happens when your horse dies? do you leave the corpse (porsche) and try to revive it? or do you replace it with a new stallion (wrx)?
Perhaps you have never heard of the World Rally Championship... where the Subaru does especially well!
also, if you think so highly of the porsche motor, i will sell you mine! (its either that or the scrap yard) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Jake Raby Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2003 Posts: 7433 Location: Aircooled Heaven USA
|
Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 9:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Please don't confuse the anemic stock engine with its performance cousin, the MassIVe 4... The engine that has the capability to live a long reliable and powerful life through development..
I drive one every day and make it a point to pass every Subaru in my path.
Character is what separates your 914 from all the other cars on the road...
Oh well, its your car- |
|
Back to top |
|
|
GodsPeculiarTreasure Samba Member
Joined: November 17, 2007 Posts: 1
|
Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 10:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Well, with the new subaru engine you can have air conditioning;
a luxury not available to the archaic type IV engine. so there is something positive in this procedure. and hey, who said experimenting is bad? how will you ever find out what's best if you stick with the engines "professionals" say belong in those cars? This enikolayev guy is one brave young man, to get out and do something so original, unlike people who stick to the "only-way"...right on mister! that's the way to go! Keep up the good work and lemme know how everything turns out. ok? well, keep us updated with pics and stuff! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
enikolayev Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2007 Posts: 22
|
Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 10:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Again; "capacity, development" All of that reeks of "potential". Anything can have "potential" given enough capital. I specifically chose to use a Subaru engine since i'm on a budget here, i don't have excess funding to mold some old hunk of metal into a powerful and reliable engine. The Subaru power plant packs that punch initially. It is far easier to maintain and will even get better fuel mileage!
also, you still didn't answer my question about character. If i understand you correctly, anything can have character, especially a wrx powered Porsche! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
blue77bay Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2006 Posts: 631 Location: Brisvegas Australia
|
Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 11:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
please dont, take a little advise from the wizard (jake) just go get a fiero its has what you are looking for and dont think for 1 second your bent valve suby is cheap to fix ,once you pull it apart you open a whole hornets nest of problems specific to that engine,and expensive with repair costs as well as conversion you could have a very nice RELIABLE t4 sitting in its rightful place
yep they won the WRC but not with anything that comes from the production line
1 more point i should add,, if you feel so inclined air con is an option with the t4 engine as well it was from the factory with factory parts |
|
Back to top |
|
|
enikolayev Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2007 Posts: 22
|
Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 12:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
wasn't the a/c an option on the type IV? and isn't it not common to find? modern cars have a/c everywhere...
is everyone a purist here?
if you don't already understand, this project is under way so if your gonna talk trash about Subaru and praise type IV, i suggest you take it elsewhere.
It would cost me more to rebuild the old porsche engine than the Subaru one i bought! and then if i try tuning the IV in order to bring it up to the power of the Subaru engine, that would be another 2 arms and a leg!
i think i have made my point long ago, Subaru engine is here to stay! if you don't have any ideas/thoughts/possible methods to install the wrx engine, no need to rant on about how the oldschool motor is "supreme". |
|
Back to top |
|
|
enikolayev Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2007 Posts: 22
|
Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 12:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
Also, i took apart the subaru engine and bent valves are the only problem |
|
Back to top |
|
|
piledriver Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2003 Posts: 184 Location: In my bunker, beside my wall. (Howe, Tx)
|
Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 2:16 am Post subject: |
|
|
You sound determined, so Good luck!
Tell us how it goes.
To keep help keep those valves straight, remember to change the timing belts and idlers every ~60K, and I hope you don't have the constant head gasket issues most subys have after they age.
BTW, I have 2 T4 powered vehicles in may yard at the moment.
Neither has less than 300K on the bottom end, one was built entirely of used parts from several engines >15 years ago, and is probably pushing 500k since the "rebuild" . (it has had 2 sets of P&L since, and a fresh set of rebuilt heads ~300K ago... It's gotten some fresh ex valves a couple of times since, as well as F&R seals etc)
(that's Methuselah, a 1.8, is in it's third bus, the first two dying of rust, although "Shed" is still providing limited service out back, and may yet become a really serious lawnmower )
It's all in how you take care of them.
The Pile 914 LE has a dry sumped turbo 2.0 under construction for it's engine bay. (A Volvo 740 intercooler fits perfectly over the engine, fan sucks through plenty)
So many parts, so little time... |
|
Back to top |
|
|
enikolayev Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2007 Posts: 22
|
Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 5:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
well, i have decided on this so that is the way its gonna be. i guess you can say i'm determined, but that would be an understatement. The engine is going to be installed before the spring semester of school. working on the car on the weekends is all i can do for now. I cannot wait until the almost one month break in between semesters.
I will keep you guys posted! hope i don't encounter too many troubles along the way. Blue bay and Jake Raby give me so much more determination to pull this off! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Jake Raby Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2003 Posts: 7433 Location: Aircooled Heaven USA
|
Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
Don't think that what you are doing is new, or that you are a Pioneer.. People have been ruining their cars with Suby power for years...
In fact I have PERSONALLY done two EJ22 conversions into aircooled Vws, the last was in 1996.. This is why I can understand why creating a "Bastard" just isn't cool...
NOw, tell me why you can't have A/C on the TIV Engine???
I specialize in making new things that make old engine foundations more desirable in todays world. I am FAR from being a purist and could care less what you do with your car.
I'll close by saying that I drive a TIV powered car everyday, everywhere and I don't drive slow, and I don't have to work on the engine weekly. My roundtrip to/ from my shop is 85 miles / day and I love every minute of pracicing what I preach. But that's just me_ the person who wishes he'd never owned the ONE watercooled passenger car that mistakingly bought 15 years ago. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Bleyseng Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2005 Posts: 4752 Location: Seattle
|
Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 9:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
of course lots of 914's had AC, mine did.
I have great cold starting with blasting heat in a few blocks of driving and I pass everyone all the time with my little 2.1L.
I have seen several of these subie swaps so its nothing new. good luck keeping it cool.
as for the tranny, parts are expensive! whats wrong with it??? 1st and 2nd gear synchros are easy to replace but from there it gets to be $$$$.
for help go to the 914World site as there are guys who have done this there.
As for resale, the subie swap kills resale value...a stockish 914 is now in the Collector market with prices going up. Several have sold for $25k recently. _________________ 70 Ghia Black convert-9/69 build date-stock w/133k 1600 SP-barn find now with a rebuilt tranny and engine
77 Westy 2.0L w/Ljet, Camper Special engine-95hp and with LSD!(sold)
76 Porsche 914 2.1L L20c, 120hp Djet (sold)
87 Syncro Westy Titan Red 2.1L 2 knob 100k miles |
|
Back to top |
|
|
enikolayev Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2007 Posts: 22
|
Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 3:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks for the info. My synchros need replacing, i'm pretty sure i can live with 1st and 2nd replaced. 1st is the worst one. Also there is an oil leak. know of any good places to find tranny parts? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|