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'74 porsche 914 subaru WRX engine swap
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enikolayev
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 1:11 am    Post subject: '74 porsche 914 subaru WRX engine swap Reply with quote

I'm a 19 year old college student and recently my 914's engine gave out (lifter problem i presume) so instead of repairing the engine i ran across the idea of a WRX engine swap. The Subaru engine will be far more reliable and it will be much much more pleasant to drive in the car with the extra power.

I wanna hear what you guys think. Has anyone done this before? I'm open to suggestions. Also if anyone knows a good place to get 2 heads for a WRX engine for relatively cheap, don't hesitate to let me know.

Currently i have a wrx engine with bent valves. and a 914 on blocks with the engine/transmission removed.

here are some earlier pics of the car to keep this thread juicy
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58cab
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 3:21 am    Post subject: wrx in 914 Reply with quote

There was an article in Excellence a couple of months back about this conversion. Didn't seem too difficult. What size engine do you have in the 914 now or was?
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Bleyseng
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Far more reliable? Subies have their own set of problems....

914 motors if taken care of go 100-200k miles and ya don't have to drag around all that water!
_________________
70 Ghia Black convert-9/69 build date-stock w/133k 1600 SP-barn find now with a rebuilt tranny and engine
77 Westy 2.0L w/Ljet, Camper Special engine-95hp and with LSD!(sold)
76 Porsche 914 2.1L L20c, 120hp Djet (sold)
87 Syncro Westy Titan Red 2.1L 2 knob 100k miles
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Cohibra45
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your going to be adding a lot more weight!!!

Kelly
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enikolayev
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"their own set of problems"? The subaru engine is '04 its far more reliable and better built!

And "taking care" of the 914 motor is exactly what i'm trying to avoid. I don't like babying it around. I want to flog it severely!

plus who cares about adding a few pounds! it will have so much more power. if your concerned about adding a few pounds, don't upgrade at all! heck don't even eat dinner.

if you guys haven't realized this already i want to go fast and do so reliably. a few pounds of water will not matter. I am specifically avoiding the porsche engine since i have had not so good past experiences with the whole carburator and air coooled thing, maybe i'm just not cut out for it, but those never seem to work properly. This is an attempt to amend all of that!

and to 58cab, Mine had a 1.8 in there... then engine is still sitting around near the car its for sale if anyone is interested. but if you can find me that artice about the conversion, please post the link.
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Cohibra45
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not going to change your mind here!!! Smile

Sorry you feel that way about the Type 4. It really is a great engine with huge amounts of potential! If you do your research more, I think you will find this to be very true.

But for the Suby swap check out these links:

http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=111352

http://www.etischer.com/914xt6.html

http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=44464

The last post in the last link will give you a lot more info and links...

For general 914 information, check out here:

http://www.pelicanparts.com/914/914tech_articles.htm

Good luck,

Kelly (Cohibra45)
Soon to have MassIVe 2.9L roller cam.
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enikolayev
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all of the info. As of right now, i'm getting rid of rust under the battery tray and doing some other body work. Waiting on my uncle to come take measurements of the porsche tranny and subaru engine so he can make me the adapter plate.

I will have to rebuild the transmission, how much does that usually cost?

here are some pics of my progress so far. engine out, repaired left rear quarter and starting on the battery tray rust.
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Jake Raby
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you want a watercooled, radiator ladenn mid engined car just buy a friggin Fiero... They are cheap, disposable and don't have any character you can rape from them..

The original 914 engine is a tough son of a bitch IF done right with the right approach. No other engine has won more Baja 1000 off road races and that's 1000 miles @ WOT through the desert.

Keep it aircooled or you'll forever rape it of the one bit of character that sets it apart, actually making it a 914...

Yes, there is nothing I hate more than a damn radiator-
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enikolayev
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What exactly do you mean by "charachter"? The car not starting in the morning when its frosty? or about having to think 5 min ahead before passing on the highway?

Maybe i should go back to the horse and buggy, now that has character! and speaking of horse and buggy, what happens when your horse dies? do you leave the corpse (porsche) and try to revive it? or do you replace it with a new stallion (wrx)?

Perhaps you have never heard of the World Rally Championship... where the Subaru does especially well!

also, if you think so highly of the porsche motor, i will sell you mine! (its either that or the scrap yard)
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Jake Raby
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please don't confuse the anemic stock engine with its performance cousin, the MassIVe 4... The engine that has the capability to live a long reliable and powerful life through development..

I drive one every day and make it a point to pass every Subaru in my path.

Character is what separates your 914 from all the other cars on the road...

Oh well, its your car-
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GodsPeculiarTreasure
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, with the new subaru engine you can have air conditioning;
a luxury not available to the archaic type IV engine. so there is something positive in this procedure. and hey, who said experimenting is bad? how will you ever find out what's best if you stick with the engines "professionals" say belong in those cars? This enikolayev guy is one brave young man, to get out and do something so original, unlike people who stick to the "only-way"...right on mister! that's the way to go! Keep up the good work and lemme know how everything turns out. ok? well, keep us updated with pics and stuff!
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enikolayev
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Again; "capacity, development" All of that reeks of "potential". Anything can have "potential" given enough capital. I specifically chose to use a Subaru engine since i'm on a budget here, i don't have excess funding to mold some old hunk of metal into a powerful and reliable engine. The Subaru power plant packs that punch initially. It is far easier to maintain and will even get better fuel mileage!

also, you still didn't answer my question about character. If i understand you correctly, anything can have character, especially a wrx powered Porsche!
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blue77bay
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

please dont, take a little advise from the wizard (jake) just go get a fiero its has what you are looking for and dont think for 1 second your bent valve suby is cheap to fix ,once you pull it apart you open a whole hornets nest of problems specific to that engine,and expensive with repair costs as well as conversion you could have a very nice RELIABLE t4 sitting in its rightful place
yep they won the WRC but not with anything that comes from the production line
1 more point i should add,, if you feel so inclined air con is an option with the t4 engine as well it was from the factory with factory parts
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enikolayev
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wasn't the a/c an option on the type IV? and isn't it not common to find? modern cars have a/c everywhere...

is everyone a purist here?

if you don't already understand, this project is under way so if your gonna talk trash about Subaru and praise type IV, i suggest you take it elsewhere.

It would cost me more to rebuild the old porsche engine than the Subaru one i bought! and then if i try tuning the IV in order to bring it up to the power of the Subaru engine, that would be another 2 arms and a leg!

i think i have made my point long ago, Subaru engine is here to stay! if you don't have any ideas/thoughts/possible methods to install the wrx engine, no need to rant on about how the oldschool motor is "supreme".
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enikolayev
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, i took apart the subaru engine and bent valves are the only problem
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piledriver
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You sound determined, so Good luck!
Tell us how it goes.

To keep help keep those valves straight, remember to change the timing belts and idlers every ~60K, and I hope you don't have the constant head gasket issues most subys have after they age.

BTW, I have 2 T4 powered vehicles in may yard at the moment.
Neither has less than 300K on the bottom end, one was built entirely of used parts from several engines >15 years ago, and is probably pushing 500k since the "rebuild" . (it has had 2 sets of P&L since, and a fresh set of rebuilt heads ~300K ago... It's gotten some fresh ex valves a couple of times since, as well as F&R seals etc)

(that's Methuselah, a 1.8, is in it's third bus, the first two dying of rust, although "Shed" is still providing limited service out back, and may yet become a really serious lawnmower Twisted Evil )

It's all in how you take care of them.

The Pile 914 LE has a dry sumped turbo 2.0 under construction for it's engine bay. (A Volvo 740 intercooler fits perfectly over the engine, fan sucks through plenty)

So many parts, so little time...
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enikolayev
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 5:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, i have decided on this so that is the way its gonna be. i guess you can say i'm determined, but that would be an understatement. The engine is going to be installed before the spring semester of school. working on the car on the weekends is all i can do for now. I cannot wait until the almost one month break in between semesters.

I will keep you guys posted! hope i don't encounter too many troubles along the way. Blue bay and Jake Raby give me so much more determination to pull this off!
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Jake Raby
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't think that what you are doing is new, or that you are a Pioneer.. People have been ruining their cars with Suby power for years...

In fact I have PERSONALLY done two EJ22 conversions into aircooled Vws, the last was in 1996.. This is why I can understand why creating a "Bastard" just isn't cool...

NOw, tell me why you can't have A/C on the TIV Engine???

I specialize in making new things that make old engine foundations more desirable in todays world. I am FAR from being a purist and could care less what you do with your car.

I'll close by saying that I drive a TIV powered car everyday, everywhere and I don't drive slow, and I don't have to work on the engine weekly. My roundtrip to/ from my shop is 85 miles / day and I love every minute of pracicing what I preach. But that's just me_ the person who wishes he'd never owned the ONE watercooled passenger car that mistakingly bought 15 years ago.
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Bleyseng
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

of course lots of 914's had AC, mine did.

I have great cold starting with blasting heat in a few blocks of driving and I pass everyone all the time with my little 2.1L.

I have seen several of these subie swaps so its nothing new. good luck keeping it cool.

as for the tranny, parts are expensive! whats wrong with it??? 1st and 2nd gear synchros are easy to replace but from there it gets to be $$$$.

for help go to the 914World site as there are guys who have done this there.

As for resale, the subie swap kills resale value...a stockish 914 is now in the Collector market with prices going up. Several have sold for $25k recently.
_________________
70 Ghia Black convert-9/69 build date-stock w/133k 1600 SP-barn find now with a rebuilt tranny and engine
77 Westy 2.0L w/Ljet, Camper Special engine-95hp and with LSD!(sold)
76 Porsche 914 2.1L L20c, 120hp Djet (sold)
87 Syncro Westy Titan Red 2.1L 2 knob 100k miles
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enikolayev
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the info. My synchros need replacing, i'm pretty sure i can live with 1st and 2nd replaced. 1st is the worst one. Also there is an oil leak. know of any good places to find tranny parts?
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