Difference between 911 & 912

[Slow Steve]

Hey all. All I've had my hands in are VWs, but always wanted a 911. I'm finally starting to seriously look into them and the more I look the more I don't know (isn't that always the case?) other than I like them more and more. So as I was looking threw the classifieds and forums I started to see 912s and they didn't "look" all that different from 911s, so I was wondering if you gurus can fill me in on what the differences are. I don't mean every nut and bolt, just some major ones that could sway somebody from one to the other like parts $/availability/anything big. Much appreciated guy/gals.
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BarryL wrote:
100 years from now when they have reverse atom regeneration attractor technology perfected and in a hand held back yard mechanic's price range, someone will dig up this thread and go, "What were those guys thinking? The whole thing was all there just waiting to be re-atomized. Funny how easily they cut them up back then."
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74 911
72 914
66 Single cab

[Glenn]

911 has a 6 cylinder engine and 912 has a 4 cylinder engine.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
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www.DasVolks.com
Long Island's Aircooled Club

[damesandhotrods]

And the 912E has a Type IV engine.

[Glenn]

[damesandhotrods]

Touché, but the Type IV is a bargain compared to the Porsche 4 cylinder. And when you get right down to it, the difference between a 911 and a 912 is money. The 912 is marginally more affordable the 911.

[Slow Steve]

Thanks for the replies guys. I realize how much I don't know about these babies, so I apologize in advance for basic questions.

I found a local late 70's 911 with Maint. records with just over 200k that I would be interested in, but trying to get a good idea before taking the plunge and it costing me later. My question is, is there a majic milage number for these cars? Meaning is there a certain mileage things start going wrong? And, when given a perfect situation (maint was properly performed at proper intervals and car was not abused) when do the engines need to be rebuilt and a range on cost of rebuild? Lastly (for now ) is there problem years I should stay away from?

Thanks, and much appreciated
_________________
BarryL wrote:
100 years from now when they have reverse atom regeneration attractor technology perfected and in a hand held back yard mechanic's price range, someone will dig up this thread and go, "What were those guys thinking? The whole thing was all there just waiting to be re-atomized. Funny how easily they cut them up back then."
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74 911
72 914
66 Single cab

[oasis]

I'm sure there are folks on here that know their Porsche's due the parallels and lineage with VW. I would go to a Porsche-specific forum and/or expert to be asking such questions. I have looked at three 912E's and all of my questions went to Porsche experts or 912E forums despite (as mentioned) the 912E uses a VW Type IV engine. I have done the same investigating the 914, and that was more of a true joint venture between the two companies. So if it came to investigating a 911 with no VW background at all, my feelings on this would only be greater in magnitude.

No offense to anyone who has responded or will respond, but I got a lot of bad info on Super Beetles and Type IV engines until I dug deeper and ended up with both.

An excellent book for info is this one:


It's around $35 or so. It explains the year-to-year differences. I bought it just for the 912E content but ended up finding the enite book full of good info.
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[Slow Steve]

Found this on Pelican if anybody is interested.

What are the classic problems/areas to check on 911s?

A. The 911 is a really good car but there are a few problem areas
that have, at various times, plagued this particular vehicle. Here
is a list of some of the most notorious problems.

A1. RUST -- Rust can destroy a 911's unit-body and this can be really
expensive (impossible?) to fix. Watch closely for rust, particularly
with the pre-galvanized bodies (pre-1976?). Check the seams around
and edges of the doors, trunk, and hood. Check the jack points and
the torsion bar tubes.

A2. CHAIN TENSIONERS -- The timing chain is held taught by chain tensioners.
The early (pre-1984) timing chain tensioners tended to wear out and
suddenly collapse causing your pistons to come in violent contact with
your valves. This gets expensive. The 1984 and later cars used oil-
fed tensioners which solved the problem.

Many early 911 owners have had their older chain tensioners replaced
with Carrera tensioners. This modification costs around $300-$400
plus labor. Adding carrera tensioners is extremely expensive on
pre-1967 engines.

Some have modified their tensioners by adding mechanical tensioner
guards. These devices keep the tensioners from collapsing
completely when they collapse.

A3. EXPLODING CLUTCH -- The 911SC (1978-1983) used a rubber-centered
clutch which would eventually fail and send rubber pieces sailing
throughout that part of the transmission. These clutches should be
replaced by a spring-centered one.

A4. EXPLODING AIRBOX -- The 2.7 and 3.0 liter 911 cars use a $200 airbox
that can, if the car backfires while starting, explode. For around
$15, you can get a pop-off valve that is supposed to fix this
problem.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Q4. So, what's all these problems I keep hearing about the 2.7 liter
911s?

A. It's a tragic story. Porsche increased the displacement of the
2.4 without providing enough cooling and, to add insult to injury,
the US models had thermal reactors (except for 1974) that got
REALLY hot. The result is, among other things, head studs that
pulled out of the crank case (due to thermal expansion of the
cylinders) and destroyed valve trains. All of this resulted in an
average engine life of about 50,000 miles (your mileage may vary --
HA! I was *waiting* to use that line).

So the natural follow-on question (so natural, in fact, that I'm not
breaking it out into its own question) is "can anything be done to
mitigate the design flaws of the 2.7?" The answer is:

- Have the case helicoiled or timeserted. These threaded
inserts are installed in the crank case to hold the
cylinder studs tightly and keep them from pulling.

- Use Dilivar or Raceware studs. These studs won't pull
out because they expand with temperature at the same
rate as the cylendars.

- Replace the 5-blade fan with an 11-blade fan.

- Add an extra oil cooler.
_________________
BarryL wrote:
100 years from now when they have reverse atom regeneration attractor technology perfected and in a hand held back yard mechanic's price range, someone will dig up this thread and go, "What were those guys thinking? The whole thing was all there just waiting to be re-atomized. Funny how easily they cut them up back then."
___________________

74 911
72 914
66 Single cab

[Bruce]

[Slow Steve]

[jeffff]

I too have always wanted a 912, I had a 71 911 last year, but the VW in me has me yearning for a 912.

Are all 65-69s more or less the same? are early cars prefered over later ones?

What would one expect to pay for a nice, well sorted, stock 912?

[jt912]

912's are all basically the same. Early '65s have a couple different things, '68s have a bunch of one-year-only parts, and '69s have the longer wheelbase. All use the same basic engine with very minor changes (generator size, dizzy). An original, rust free car or correctly restored car will set you back around 30K. A nice well-sorted reasonably rust-free car will set you back somewhere north of 20K. A good driver needing work will set you back 10K. A rusty, but complete car can be found for 5K.
A great website to check out is www.912bbs.org/

[jeffff]

[waxhead]

The 912e is a great 'starter' Porsche. You get the galvanized body work (rust issues are rare), the later 930 body style, plus the bullet-proof Type IV engine. A bit underpowered maybe, but it gets great gas mileage on the highway, and maintenence costs are low. Some parts are unique to these models - muffler, FI components, transmission. Check out this website for more info:http://www.porsche912e.com.

Here's mine - running strong with 240,000 miles on the clock:


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Mike B.

1976 Porsche 912E #1047
1976 Porsche 912E #1299
1974 Thing