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2276 street engine dyno chart
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pdub
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scooter. I mimiced Gericos build for my 2275 Baja almost to a tee (had Brothers VW build it) and love it. In hindsight I would go with a different cam than the Engle 120 though. It has too much power up top and I would like more torque down low. It's not abad bd at all, especialy with my dual 40s and 34mm vents, but I agree, for better low end grunt stick with the 110 or similarcam for an offroad car. I went with 9:1 CR and 91 octane works fine but go with a torque cam and lower CR...like the others said, tell Darren where you want it to perform best-how you intend to use the car and take his advice. I also stuck with 35x40 valves in ported mini d-port heads and I think this was a good call. Darrens or Steve tims heads will rock.
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BStuck
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stripped66 wrote:
67jason wrote:
looks like a fun toy. and i wouldnt necessarily consider a 160hp street engine a low power producer. Wink


Unfortunately, the Samba is notorious for @ssclowns dropping in and saying " *yawn* way to waste the displacement, you could've built a 160-hp 1914 daily driver". Rolling Eyes

That's a solid engine combo and should provide great longevity!


yeah i can't stand it sometimes the biggest one i get is when i ask for help they say get a honda instead -_-
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BStuck wrote:
Stripped66 wrote:
67jason wrote:
looks like a fun toy. and i wouldnt necessarily consider a 160hp street engine a low power producer. Wink


Unfortunately, the Samba is notorious for @ssclowns dropping in and saying " *yawn* way to waste the displacement, you could've built a 160-hp 1914 daily driver". Rolling Eyes

That's a solid engine combo and should provide great longevity!


yeah i can't stand it sometimes the biggest one i get is when i ask for help they say get a honda instead -_-


Dont feel bad happens to all of us. The best teacher you can have is yourself and research to figure out most stuff. Almost every information needed to make a repair is somewhere on the internet. Its best to do a search function on Samba then on google to find the answer your looking for. Its mostly the old coots who's been asked the same question time and time again. Everyone wants the instant answer/gratification with out putting in the time to look for themselves first. ( not directed to anyone just generally saying).
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77charger
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turbodon1776 wrote:
single center mount weber 44 works good for offroad.

only thing i dont like is you are stuck with the stock style end castings which are restrictive when it comes to flow.

how much power are you looking to make?

duals work good but they always seem to rattle their ways out of sync and such when bounching around offroad.

for c/r i say around 9:1


Never had a problem with my duals getting pounded out of sync i think i have 3.5 seasons on them.I checked them at least twice a season.
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seanboy69
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 8:49 am    Post subject: 2276 street engine dyno chart Reply with quote

Hey how is this motor been? Any problems? I am building one for my 56 oval an it is pretty much the same motor. How many miles do you have on it now?
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JustBuggy
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd love to see what this engine would do with a turbo installed! Twisted Evil
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DarthWeber
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 5:25 pm    Post subject: Re: 2276 street engine dyno chart Reply with quote

seanboy69 wrote:
Hey how is this motor been? Any problems? I am building one for my 56 oval an it is pretty much the same motor. How many miles do you have on it now?


Sean, it might be better to pm Gerico, he hasn't been around here for awhile.
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Mitey62 wrote:
Swapped the Compufire for a Bosch blue and some points I had sitting around, started 1st crank. Took her out for a drive, pulls harder, more RPM, and runs smoother. I think I'll be sticking with points from now on.

RockCrusher wrote:
JB weld the case halves....that'll keep the fretting to a minimum. Laughing
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pharos
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 2:05 pm    Post subject: Re: 2276 street engine dyno chart Reply with quote

gerico wrote:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Thought you guys might be interested in dyno results of my 2276 street engine. Before anyone comments on the "low" HP for a 2276 consider that the heads are 40x35, the cam is an E-120, the carbs are Dell 40s w/ 32mm vents, and the cam gears are beveled (i.e. quiet). Dyno was with fan belt, working alt, and through the muffler with 91 oct gas. Small valves, small cam, small carbs, but look at that torque curve...looks more like a type 4. Perfect for the street. The engine was built with the goal of a reliable, mildly tuned street engine with lots of torque, rapid throttle response, and decent mileage.

Yes I built it myself but with lots of advice and help from Jason @ VW paradise and from Darren @ DRD Racing. I can't say enough about how helpful both of these guys were. Heads (DRD Level 5), crank, rods, advice on the combo, and dyno session from DRD. Small parts, machining, and lots of help from VW paradise.


Hi,
I'm assembling the same combo and I need to ask you
1- Do you used double springs for Valves or single HD?
2- If you have a cylinder head temp gauge what is the highest temp while using 9.2:1 CR?
3- How fast it goes from 0~60?

Thanks
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mark tucker
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

has it been chassie dynoed?
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youngstah
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just curious as I'm trying to understand how diff parts affect final output...

Although it was a bumpy road, my builder just finished a long block up for me.

65 bug - goal is streetcar, occasional strip for fun...
2276 w 120cam
1.25 IAP rockers, dual springs
8.5CR
044 42x37.5
Q. I dug through my old parts thinking I have 44iDFs and really had 48 IDFs instead...don't know the Venturi size.

Should I not use these carbs on this motor? Compared to the output of your engine, what do you expect it will produce with these variations assuming all else is equal or set up correctly?
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ALB
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

youngstah wrote:
Just curious as I'm trying to understand how diff parts affect final output...

Although it was a bumpy road, my builder just finished a long block up for me.

65 bug - goal is streetcar, occasional strip for fun...
2276 w 120cam
1.25 IAP rockers, dual springs
8.5CR
044 42x37.5
Q. I dug through my old parts thinking I have 44iDFs and really had 48 IDFs instead...don't know the Venturi size. Should I not use these carbs on this motor? Compared to the output of your engine, what do you expect it will produce with these variations assuming all else is equal or set up correctly?


The 48's will be great carbs for your motor. They will probably give a little more top end hp than with the 44's, which would have given a little more mid range power (don't worry, with a motor that size you won't feel the "lack" of mid range; it'll all be awesome! Twisted Evil ). You will be able to adjust the powerband a little (emphasis here on little) to your liking by playing with venturi size, but judging by your goal I would think that even with the vents that give the best top end power you'll be happy with the way it runs throughout the rpm range.
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DarthWeber
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guys, Gerico last visited the Samba on or about Memorial Day. I don't think he hangs around here much any more.

Pharos - I believe Gerico used DRD L5 heads and they do come with dual valve springs. I don't ever recall seeing head temps for Gerico's motor if that's what you meant. Otherwise, in general, your head temps should be in the 275 - 375 degree range (someone correct me if I'm wrong on the temps). 0 - 60...with 144 ft/lbs torque in a light Beetle....probably really quick with proper gearing.

Youngstah - go back to page 1 of this thread and read Darren's comments about using larger valve heads on this engine. Using 48IDF's would compliment the larger valved heads quite nicely. I would think 36mm venturis would give you the best balance of power/drivability/tunability.
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Mitey62 wrote:
Swapped the Compufire for a Bosch blue and some points I had sitting around, started 1st crank. Took her out for a drive, pulls harder, more RPM, and runs smoother. I think I'll be sticking with points from now on.

RockCrusher wrote:
JB weld the case halves....that'll keep the fretting to a minimum. Laughing
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pharos
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 2:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Mr. Mike,
Thank you for your reply.
Sameh
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Alstrup
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 5:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ports are obviusly too large for the valves, hence the relatively low torque. But the flat curve makes it pull nice on the street.

High decks have just been discussed/explained in another thread. 1-2 days ago.

T
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DarthWeber
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alstrup wrote:
Ports are obviusly too large for the valves, hence the relatively low torque.

You're joking, right?
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Mitey62 wrote:
Swapped the Compufire for a Bosch blue and some points I had sitting around, started 1st crank. Took her out for a drive, pulls harder, more RPM, and runs smoother. I think I'll be sticking with points from now on.

RockCrusher wrote:
JB weld the case halves....that'll keep the fretting to a minimum. Laughing
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modok
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alstrup wrote:
Ports are obviusly too large for the valves, hence the relatively low torque. But the flat curve makes it pull nice on the street.

High decks have just been discussed/explained in another thread. 1-2 days ago.

T


Something fishy about the dyno graph, not sure what tho
The torque at 2500 is very high, yet it barely drops off up top, I do not know how that could be so with those parts


Last edited by modok on Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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youngstah
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The 48's will be great carbs for your motor. They will probably give a little more top end hp than with the 44's, which would have given a little more mid range power (don't worry, with a motor that size you won't feel the "lack" of mid range; it'll all be awesome! ). You will be able to adjust the powerband a little (emphasis here on little) to your liking by playing with venturi size, but judging by your goal I would think that even with the vents that give the best top end power you'll be happy with the way it runs throughout the rpm range.


ALB - thanks for the input.
Curious what specific Venturi size would you suggest for 48idfs to produce at least similar figures coming from this dyno chart? I'm guessing to produce these figures the exhaust/cam combo is also very important.

My setup: 48idf's, engle 120 cam, 1.25 rockers, mini wedge port 42x37.5 no exhaust purchased yet...

Q. would a 1 3/4 merged be a good choice to produce these numbers or or perhaps a CSP python? $$$ I wish someone would do a comparison! Anyhow, not to divert the topic too much I'm wondering if these dyno #s can be tweaked with a simple alteration of parts in a positive direction.
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modok
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

that will be a lot peakeir

having plenty of cc for the heads/carbs used is part of why the curve is so "flat"
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martyrg
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So Modak, do you mean that smaller valves (40x35 vs 42x37.5) and smaller carbs (44's vs 48's) is the reason for the flat toqure curve? Can you talk about how exhaust system (brand, size, style, muffler) would have an affect on the combo?
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modok
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are a few factors in the parts list that would contribute to a flat smooth torque curve.
The 120 cam is known to produce a very "smooth" torque curve in mid-large engines.... nothing new there

82 stroke; the short rod ratio does help get it "on the cam" sooner, and have a nice wide powerband

The effect of header primary length can be important, the primary length alone will naturally "work" well, just in the organ pipe sense, at whatever rpms it's tuned for, it will also naturally work in a harmonic at oh..... like 60% of that rpm. Right in the middle between these rpms it does not do a lot of good, it's kinda "neutral" provided the airspeed is high enough. If the primary length is chosen so the "middle" is right at the torque peak, it will tend to boost VE above and below the engine's peak torque, making the curve quite flat. This is generally a good thing, unless peak torque is where this particular engine lives most of it's life......in which case it's silly to have a header doing nothing most of the time IMO
In the case of this dyno graph, I cannot guess what header it has, it must have a majic header that works super strong at 2500 and 5500 rpm, normally that does not happen Think.....without a horrible bad zone in the middle

An intake tract that has a lot of taper( big carb on a small port), can be extra peaky; the torque curve will wave up and down as it goes through the fifth, fourth, third harmionics. If you put a smaller venturi (and velocity stack) on the thing this makes it less peaky, the harmonics are not as pronounced, thus smoother
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