Brake Bleeding

[erwinsm]

I have followed this thread but I am still stumped about my brake problem. front disc,new single circuit bus master cylinder (from OLD speed modified removed check valve), new steel braided hoses, new rear Varga wheel cylinders, pedal free play checked, rear drums snug with drums on bleeding , wheel adjustment stars are oriented in correct slot- tried all methods of bleeding -still dont have a firm or high pedal -pedal has a huge travel with no leaks anywhere- THE ONLY WAY I CAN HAVE A NICE FIRM PEDAL is when the pressure bleeder is connected and some pressure on the reservoir is present but when I release this pressure the pedal goes back down . No other method has caused the pedal to be where I want it to be except when the pressure bleeder is connected. There has to be a reason for this -I have not seen anymore air out of any lines when I bleed each wheel. please help !!

[wayne collett]

[erwinsm]

tried to do short burst but still has low pedal -took my time to install another master cylinder of the same kind and same problem !!(I thought it could be a bad cylinder
)I can not think of any other way of fixing this !!

[Olymale]

I have had the same dilema with getting brakes to bleed completely with both bug and bus systems. I finally broke down and bought this system and have great brakes on all my rides now. http://www.pelicanparts.com/euro/catalog/ShopCart/TOOL/POR_TOOL_BLEEDR_pg5.htm
_________________
SBS #76

58 ragtop bug
60 sc
65 splitty
67 Square Back
85 911 Carrera
http://community.webshots.com/user/olymale

[79SuperVert]

[wayne collett]

you can back bleed the brakes by filling an oil can with brake fluid and attaching the hose from the oil can to the bleed nipples , open the nipples and squirt the fluid in this will blow any bubbles back to the resevoir

[erwinsm]

OK -the pressure bleeder works and I have the same unit- but when I disconnect this from the master cylinder the pedal is no longer firm- it has great pedal high position and firmness when pressure is on. gravity bleed control -done that as well -still no firm pedal. Now is it possible to go retrograde and suck air the other direction (connect the suction to the line connected to the reservoir) similar to the idea of blowing the brake fluid back in the line but actually opening valve on wheel and then sucking backwards still maintaing a closed system-will this get rid of air the other way around ? has anyone tried this before.

[Bruce]

[wayne collett]

[erwinsm]

OK this method is certainly something to try and I will post results -I am crossing my fingers on this one.

[erwinsm]

WHAT A REVELATION !! HERE ARE THE RESULTS. THIS IS A GREAT LESSON AND ADVICE TO LEARN FROM. ok so I first opened up the rear passenger bleeder and allowed for some gravity dripping action (very slooww ! 5-6 hour it took total) then to driver rear then to right front and lastly driver side. Then I set up a contraption of oil pump can filled with clean brake fluid hooked a vinyl tubing to an open nipple bleeder. I let some brake fluid drain out into the oil can so that no air will be pushed in. I then disconnected the single line that leads to the reservoir from the master cylinder and hooked this up to the Mighty Vac suction and reservoir. I then pumped the brake fliud in the opposite direction through one bleeder screw and as I was pumping this fluid inward bubbles came out through the line connected to the Mighty vac. I wanted to see if I can suction all the air out this way and I started pumping the mighty vac until I do not see anymore bubbles. (I disconnected the vinyl line from the oil can and submerged this under bottle of clean brake fluid. what I was now doing is a total reverse bleeding upwards where air will rise easier. I did this on each wheel just to be sure --RESULTS --HIGH FIRM PEDAL !!!! THIS SYSTEM MOST LIKELY HAVE 0 AIR IN THE SYSTEM. FIRMEST VW PEDAL I HAVE EVER HAD. this last resort was it. The complicating factor with my brake bleeding frustration was because my steel lines and stainless brake hoses have upward and steep position and curvatures that can trap air as some ride high above the master cylinder. Also tilting the angle of the bug helped as well with the gravity bleeding being that my bug has a pretty raked down position. THERE IS A GOD ! THIS IS A GREAT SUREFIRE WAY TO BLEED YOUR BRAKES. GOOD OL GRAVITY AND REVERSE SUCTION SYSTEM.

[wayne collett]

cars are so much fun to play with,

[65 rat]

Hey guys iv read this whole thread and still cant get my brakes to work on my 65 in New Zealand. Single MC, iv adjusted all the drums so they are all dragging, bled all drums endlessly, theres no air what so ever coming out of them. The pedal still goes straight to the floor. If you pump it say 10 times it it builds a little bit of pressure but you can still push it to the floor. I havent checked the master cylinder as it was pumping fluid to all corners no problem and has started building up some pressure. The thread that goes to the pedal is completely rusted to i havent touched that or are very keen to check the MC beause it will mean trying to unbolt this rust.

Should i just keep bleeding and hope it comes right? Any tell tale signs that the MC could be stuffed?

Any advice would be very appreciated!

[wayne collett]

if you check for any fluid around the drums at the bottom when youve bled them , to see if there is any leaks. if thers fluid then the wheel cylinders have perished, then it could be the seals in the mc. try back bleeding first with an old oil can , open up the bleed neeple rear first then squirt fluid through it , so its going back to the mc . do one at a time . if this dont work then try and squeeze the brake pipe shut with a clamp and then bleed the brakes . this will tell you if one or two brake pipes are leaking at the front or rear . by the way . i messed about with my brakes for 3 days , so im passing on my experiences with you, i changed the whole lot in the end and didnt need to. good luck

[65 rat]

All the brake cylinders are new. Ill try back bleeding what is the best way to do that?

[Insaniac]

When I bled my brakes and got a solid pedal I tightened all the brakes as far as they could go. None of the wheels could spin and it worked out pretty good. I had to bleed many many times tho'. Have you tried raising one side of the car in the air?

[MANNAXMAN]

[65 rat]

I adjusted the drums so they were much further out today and it made a big difference now i have quite a firm pedal still needs a little more i think but il get the engine going and road test it 1st. Thanks for your advice.

[NERV]

Just adding my brake bleeding nightmare to the list:

I bought a 1972 super beetle in non-running condition, it had sat for several years. Rebuilding the carb and a basic tuneup got the engine running great. The brakes somewhat worked so I figured replacing the sticking wheel cylinders would do the job. I swapped them out with new centric parts, topped off the fluid, began to build up some pressure and the master failed. Around this time my hours got cut so I was working on a budget and picked up a cheap master cylinder. I installed it, began to build pressure and the main steel line going from the master to the rear brakes sprung a leak at the pedal. I made a new steel line and installed it but was unable to bleed the brakes this time, the brake hoses had clogged up. I ordered hoses from JC Whitney, the front ones were wrong, after about an hour working with some terrible customer service i finally got the idea across to them that they sent me an incorrect part and I didn't want a return I wanted an exchange for the correct hoses. Between waiting 2 weeks shipping both times that set me back a month, won't order from them again. Installed the new hoses, attempted to bleed the brakes, after some difficulty I got fluid flowing freely at all the wheels but no pedal whatsoever. I thought perhaps rust inside the other steel lines was holding air pockets so I made all new lines, everything bled out very easily this time but still no pedal. I read all of the information in this thread, attempted various methods of bleeding but still no pressure, I concluded the master cylinder was defective and replaced again with a rebuilt Wagner(I know, another cheap one), bled the brakes out again, still no pressure. But this time the behavior of the bleeding indicated the front brakes weren't building any pressure. I rebuilt the cylinder and discovered it had been assembled incorrectly with the stopscrew installed in the wrong order. I benchbled it just to get the insides partially full for the install, reinstalled it and did a pressure bleed which I had been having the most success with. The vacuum bleeder just sucked air into the system and regular pedal pumping wasn't moving the fluid well. I went RF, LF, RR, LR and the pedal firmly stiffened up each time. The pedal is now rock hard and it can easily lock up the wheels, I just got the brakes working today and with this the car is now roadworthy and ready for inspection.

[Mike_CNYBuggy]

OK, I'm about to begin bleeding my brakes tonight, and am looking for some advise.

I have a single circuit MC, I have replaced all my wheel cylinders, shoes, hardware on all 4 wheels, all brake lines are new. everything is dry.

Here's what I want to try and do, let me know what you think.

I have a large medical syringe and some clear airline hose. I was thinking of trying to push the brake fluid from the the bleeder valve at the wheel cylinders using the syringe into the master from each wheel until I saw the fluid rise in the MC reservoir and then closing the bleeder.

Would this work?

Thanks
Mike