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lbubbyj Samba Member
Joined: June 28, 2007 Posts: 72
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Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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I was having the same problems in that I could not get any sort of pedal. The key, which can't be overstated for someone that has not done this before, is to adjust the drums until they are locked up. After this was done I got a pedal right away. |
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bergfan Samba Member
Joined: March 07, 2007 Posts: 151 Location: NewZealand
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Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 3:07 am Post subject: |
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Im still having trouble getting a hard pedal, everything is new and I have tried every known bleeding method, also when I back up and then apply the brakes the pedal almost goes to the floor but comes average after driving forward. |
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Jesse67 Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2008 Posts: 19 Location: Raton NM
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Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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Ok, I have a 67 bug and I installed a new dual circuit MS, new metal lines and hoses up front, and new wheel cyls all around. I messed up and bled the rear brakes first and they bled right away, but the fronts wouldn't bleed at all. I heard on the dual circuit you have to do the fronts first, so I disconnected the lines and let some air in. I then attempted to do the front brakes and it will not bleed air out into my cup of fluid. It may spit a few bubbles of air out, but then quits. I pumped the pedal in & out with the bleeder open, and it pushes bubbles into the line, but not out into the cup, and then sucks fluid back into the bleeder. WTF?? do I have a defect MS? |
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hemifalcon Samba Member
Joined: June 15, 2005 Posts: 1481 Location: Union Grove, WI
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Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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Everyeone here will tell you that they've had different levels of success bleeding from front>rear or rear>front--everyone just has different experiences.. You just have to try and find out which way works best on your VW.. Mine worked from front to rear as my whole system was empty--then I did my final bleed from the right rear and worked up to my left front. Make sure your pushrod is at the right distance, you don't have any leaks around the top grommets on the M/C--and ensure that your lines are al ltight--ALL of them.. Then--continue... If your lines were emptied when you removed the lines and brake cylinders, it'll take you a while to get the whole system pressurized again--as Billy Crystal has been heard to say 'It's a process".. _________________ '62 VW Bug Sedan (Ruby Red)
Resto pics> http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v697/hemifalcon/Bug%20resto/?start=all&paginator=top |
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Jesse67 Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2008 Posts: 19 Location: Raton NM
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Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:53 am Post subject: |
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Well, I bought a brand new (not reman) MS from checker to replace the defective reman from Napa on my 67 bug. I bench bleed the MS before I hooked up the lines. I had the clear hoses on all three fittings into a cup of fluid and it bled out fine. I hooked up the lines, and bled all four wheels two different times, all finishing with only fluid coming out, no bubbles. But I still have NO pedal, it goes all the way to the floor! Could I have let air back in the MS when I bench bled it? would the air not bleed out through the lines???? Or do I have ANOTHER faulty MS? Alot of fluid comes out into the cup when I bleed it, alot more than the defective one I replaced. |
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AlteWagen Troll
Joined: February 23, 2007 Posts: 8503 Location: PNW
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Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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i have the same problem, I recently lost pressure to the front brakes, replaced the offending soft line and attempted to bleed. No air in system but no front brakes. the MS is only 6 months old and only has about 2K miles on it. I tried the front bleed, then rear, then rear to front, then used a pressure bleeder (from wheel cyl to master) and show no air. Was the MC damaged when the line leaked all the fluid out? I drove the car only 6 miles with the bad brakes and fixed it the next morning, any clues on what it might be? |
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6Speed Samba Member
Joined: December 10, 2002 Posts: 340 Location: East Coast
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Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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Well I just got done installing new wheel cylinders, brake lines, and shoes on my 64. I tried to bleed the brakes with my brothers help we were able to get it so no air was coming out but we only had about 1" of pedal off the floor. I know we didn't adjust the shoes all the way till the drum wouldn't turn, so I'm hoping that's the problem. I'm curious why this is so important? I hope this is my only problem!
I may build one of these: http://www.bmw-m.net/TechProc/bleeder.htm
but I'm wondering how to make the cap work with a vw? _________________ '57 Beetle |
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bugbill Samba Member
Joined: June 15, 2005 Posts: 107 Location: Sacramento Ca.
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Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:22 am Post subject: how do i adj the brake arm on the master cyc |
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my 63 will not hold a pedel i replaced the master cyc
i need to start checking the rod length
how do i check that do i have to pull the master cyc again
if so in inches ( iam old school) do i leave for end play
ill assume that the free play between the rod end and the cyc cup
that catches the rod
thanks in advance
once i get that done ill try adjusting the brakes out and bleed farest
wheel 1st and work towards the closers wheel
when i bleed them yesterday( son worked pedel) i had lots of air at 1st
then fluid ran great as i bleed
not when car sits for a minute pedel goes to floor
but when its hard, it stays away from floor and holds its position
IAM I ON THE RIGHT TRACK? |
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Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24764 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 6:49 pm Post subject: Re: how do i adj the brake arm on the master cyc |
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bugbill wrote: |
my 63 will not hold a pedel i replaced the master cyc
i need to start checking the rod length
how do i check that do i have to pull the master cyc again
if so in inches ( iam old school) do i leave for end play
ill assume that the free play between the rod end and the cyc cup
that catches the rod
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OK! Directions here for LHD type 1s, for RHD reverse which hand used.
1. Crawl into the VW through driver door and get up close with your face to the pedal cluster. Best to have a drop light in there to help see, but a flashlight will do.
2. Work brake pedal with right hand.
3. With left hand find the push rod that runs horizontal forward from the brake pedal and through the front firewall.
4. With brake pedal all the way to the rear the pushrod should wiggle slightly up/down on the front end in the MC. If no wiggle it is seated into the MC (or rusted solid to the brake pedal), best to shorten pushrod till you have a bit of wiggle.
5. If you have wiggle already or after adjusting till you get some. Work brake pedal front/rear and note pushrod movement.
6. You want 1mm or pushrod play which is a little more than 1/32" (1/32 = .030" and you really want about .040").
You also need to fully adjust the brake shoes ALL the way out to the drums. Not doing so results you pushing the brake shoes out and in and not pushing the air out of the system as well.
Also need to know if you have single circuit or dual circuit. Each requires differant bleeding.
The latter really needs to have as fully locked shoes to drums as possible. Even to the point of doing a round of bleeding and readjusting the shoes tight because they have settled slightly and so have loosened. _________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
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Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24764 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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derluftwagen wrote: |
I drove the car only 6 miles with the bad brakes and fixed it the next morning, any clues on what it might be? |
No way doing just that should have ruined the MC.
Again, adjust brake stars all the way out before bleeding!!
Sounds like you have dual circuit MC since you still have rear brakes.
If problem persists even with brakes adjusted out.
Might try having a helper push the brake pedal down while you have farthest front bleeder open.
Then with pedal all the way down shut off the bleeder valve.
Have helper let up on the pedal.
This should suck brake fluid into the MC. Try repeating this about ten times and hopefully brake fluid will start to come out of the bleeder. _________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
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6Speed Samba Member
Joined: December 10, 2002 Posts: 340 Location: East Coast
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Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 9:59 am Post subject: |
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Someone recommended running a long tube from the wheel cylinder all the way back up to the reservoir and pumping pumping until all the air is out. Does this work pretty well?
I don't see why it wouldn't. I mean all the air would be spit back out into the atmosphere and the fluid would fall back down into the reservoir. Only problem I could foresee happening is if tiny bubbles form in the reservoir from all the fluid mixing around/being agitated. _________________ '57 Beetle |
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deejee Samba Member
Joined: November 21, 2007 Posts: 178 Location: SLC
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Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24764 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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6Speed wrote: |
Someone recommended running a long tube from the wheel cylinder all the way back up to the reservoir and pumping pumping until all the air is out. Does this work pretty well? |
Would be leery of doing that. Part of bleeding brakes is to rid the brake system of any dirt/dust, and/or water that normal brake fluid sucks in like a magnet out of the atmosphere!! _________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
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6Speed Samba Member
Joined: December 10, 2002 Posts: 340 Location: East Coast
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Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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But it would be ok if you were working with a dry system? Like when you're putting in new fluid? _________________ '57 Beetle |
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Bruce Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003 Posts: 17290 Location: Left coast, Canada
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Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:22 am Post subject: |
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6Speed wrote: |
But it would be ok if you were working with a dry system? Like when you're putting in new fluid? |
Let us know how it works. _________________
overheard at the portland Swap Meet... wrote: |
..... a steering wheel made from a mastadon tusk..... |
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Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24764 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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6Speed wrote: |
But it would be ok if you were working with a dry system? Like when you're putting in new fluid? |
Probably for the water in question, but not for any dirt.
Have seen a few MCs stop working due to so much dirt/dust that has gotten into them. Take MC apart, clean out, and works for many more miles. _________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
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63CabDriver Samba Member
Joined: November 10, 2006 Posts: 512
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Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:43 am Post subject: |
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Now my problem with my 67. I have new mastercylinder, wheel cylinders, shoes, hardware, etc, etc. Ive tried bleeding the brakes, adjusting the brakes as explained in this topic. Nothing but fluid comes out of all four wheels cylinders, no leaks that I can find, and of course plenty of fluid in the resevoir. Here's the problem Im having, hopefully it's me doing something wrong or an easy fix.
I put the dub in the air so I could turn the wheels to see if the brakes are even working. When I spin any of the wheels, the first time I push on the brake pedal, the wheel will stop. While the pedal is still being compressed, I tried turning the wheel to see if the brakes are locking up and I can still turn the wheel and it feels like the brakes are almost dragging. If I pump the brake pedal one more time, the brakes work as they are suppose to. This happens on all four wheels.
BTW I have about an inch of pedal. Any suggestions? |
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Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24764 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:15 am Post subject: |
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If you mean the brake pedal only stops about 1" above the floor it sounds like you need to bleed the system again.
Does the pedal get higher the more it is pumped? Should only be slight increase in hight between first and second pump, after that no change. _________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
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63CabDriver Samba Member
Joined: November 10, 2006 Posts: 512
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Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:39 am Post subject: |
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Would I need to continue bleeding when there's nothing but fluid coming out of the wheel cylinders?
When I press on the brake pedal the first time, it seems to go alway the way to the firewall. It only builds up to about an inch, no matter how many times I pump it. |
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thetravman Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2006 Posts: 508 Location: Pounding out center main . . .
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Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:48 am Post subject: |
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hemifalcon wrote: |
it'll take you a while to get the whole system pressurized again--as Billy Crystal has been heard to say 'It's a process".. |
The brake system is not pressurized except when you operate the pedal. You're trying to remove air which is highly variable in volume compared to fluid. When you pump, let the pedal come all the way out before going down again. A helper is next to necessary. Always check inside the car for a leaking brake master cylinder and in the pan behind the front driver wheel. Put you're finger in there and try to come up with some fluid. Mine died a few weeks ago. I bled the front drivers side first because I did not want to send air all the way back to the rear wheel cylinder. Obviously some air gets in when you put in a new MC. Also you can pour fluid into the MC and work the plunger with the pedal rod while the MC is out of the car. Keep it up till fluid squirts out. Put the grommet in now because it's too difficult with MC in-car. Bolt it to the chassis BEFORE you try to attatch the lines. You may have to adjust the rod but not usually. If you have NO pedal then you've got air and/or a leak. Remove the air and archimedes principle will push those shoes to the drums. _________________ Have your car serviced at your local aircooled repair shop today.
/=O=\ good ole swing axles |
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