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John Moxon 
Samba Moderator
Joined: March 07, 2004
Posts: 13957
Location: Southampton U.K.
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 Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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| bmweuro wrote: |
I Googled Midland Ross Co. It it looks like they we primarily a truck frame builder. Do you have anymore info on them?
Thanks,
Chris |
The one in the pictures belonged to a friend. It came with a leaflet with patent information if I remember correctly (this was some 6 or 7 years ago) and the name Midland Ross with an address.
I backed-up a lot of info from the early days of my website on CD so I will have to search for it.
These smog-pumps appear at regular intervals and they are quite useless a superchargers. As Ev said an extra 4hp is only enough to cancel out a light headwind 
Edit: Here you are all you need to know from the US patent: http://www.google.com/patents?id=HBsdAAAAEBAJ&pg=PA1965&dq=3275225#PPA1967,M1
Edit, Edit: The pertinent paragraph is:
"A particular application for such a compressor is in providing compressed air for the "ManAirOx" (manifold air oxidation) automotive exhaust purification system which is being developed persuant to the anti-smog campaigns of Los Angleles and other communities."
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bmweuro
Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2004
Posts: 242
Location: Chico, CA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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What if this is a smog pump and it does add 4HP to a 25HP or 36HP motor. That would be cool and a great find!!!!
Chris |
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coad
Samba Scapegoat
Joined: September 12, 2002
Posts: 7552
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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| bmweuro wrote: |
What if this is a smog pump and it does add 4HP to a 25HP or 36HP motor. That would be cool and a great find!!!!
Chris |
Dude, give up. It's junk.
Even if the blower adds 4hp (which is unlikely) the power needed to drive the pulley and power the silly thing is probably 6hp, so your net gain (assuming you could actually make the plumbing nightmare work) is probably -2 hp. |
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bmweuro
Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2004
Posts: 242
Location: Chico, CA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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Your right it might be time to give up. I have nothing to gain here other than some knowledge even if it was some rare VW blower(I was helping out a friend). I must say it has been interesting and I am glad there are many Volks out there with the experience and knowledge of this old stuff.
Thanks,
Chris
| coad wrote: |
| bmweuro wrote: |
What if this is a smog pump and it does add 4HP to a 25HP or 36HP motor. That would be cool and a great find!!!!
Chris |
Dude, give up. It's junk.
Even if the blower adds 4hp (which is unlikely) the power needed to drive the pulley and power the silly thing is probably 6hp, so your net gain (assuming you could actually make the plumbing nightmare work) is probably -2 hp. |
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racerx45
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2005
Posts: 169
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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| bmweuro wrote: |
Your right it might be time to give up. I have nothing to gain here other than some knowledge even if it was some rare VW blower(I was helping out a friend). I must say it has been interesting and I am glad there are many Volks out there with the experience and knowledge of this old stuff.
Thanks,
Chris
| coad wrote: |
| bmweuro wrote: |
What if this is a smog pump and it does add 4HP to a 25HP or 36HP motor. That would be cool and a great find!!!!
Chris |
Dude, give up. It's junk.
Even if the blower adds 4hp (which is unlikely) the power needed to drive the pulley and power the silly thing is probably 6hp, so your net gain (assuming you could actually make the plumbing nightmare work) is probably -2 hp. |
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Here is the other part of this story that has not been talked about.
You said it was purchased by a US serviceman that was in Germany in the Fifties. What I can’t figure out is how they bought a device that was possibly for a VW in the 1950’s when it is clear from the patent that is was made in the mid 60’s in the USA. Or was the story about the US serviceman just an interesting side note and not meant to imply it was a rare 1950’s performance part from Germany?
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53 0val
Samba Professor
Joined: July 03, 2003
Posts: 11396
Location: Irvine, CA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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Bingo
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IN2VWS
Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2006
Posts: 2521
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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| racerx45 wrote: |
| bmweuro wrote: |
Your right it might be time to give up. I have nothing to gain here other than some knowledge even if it was some rare VW blower(I was helping out a friend). I must say it has been interesting and I am glad there are many Volks out there with the experience and knowledge of this old stuff.
Thanks,
Chris
| coad wrote: |
| bmweuro wrote: |
What if this is a smog pump and it does add 4HP to a 25HP or 36HP motor. That would be cool and a great find!!!!
Chris |
Dude, give up. It's junk.
Even if the blower adds 4hp (which is unlikely) the power needed to drive the pulley and power the silly thing is probably 6hp, so your net gain (assuming you could actually make the plumbing nightmare work) is probably -2 hp. |
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Here is the other part of this story that has not been talked about.
You said it was purchased by a US serviceman that was in Germany in the Fifties. What I can’t figure out is how they bought a device that was possibly for a VW in the 1950’s when it is clear from the patent that is was made in the mid 60’s in the USA. Or was the story about the US serviceman just an interesting side note and not meant to imply it was a rare 1950’s performance part from Germany? |
No, you have to go back to the first page of this thread. The 50's serviceman bit has changed, to a guy having owned it since 1960. 
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racerx45
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2005
Posts: 169
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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| IN2VWS wrote: |
| racerx45 wrote: |
| bmweuro wrote: |
Your right it might be time to give up. I have nothing to gain here other than some knowledge even if it was some rare VW blower(I was helping out a friend). I must say it has been interesting and I am glad there are many Volks out there with the experience and knowledge of this old stuff.
Thanks,
Chris
| coad wrote: |
| bmweuro wrote: |
What if this is a smog pump and it does add 4HP to a 25HP or 36HP motor. That would be cool and a great find!!!!
Chris |
Dude, give up. It's junk.
Even if the blower adds 4hp (which is unlikely) the power needed to drive the pulley and power the silly thing is probably 6hp, so your net gain (assuming you could actually make the plumbing nightmare work) is probably -2 hp. |
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Here is the other part of this story that has not been talked about.
You said it was purchased by a US serviceman that was in Germany in the Fifties. What I can’t figure out is how they bought a device that was possibly for a VW in the 1950’s when it is clear from the patent that is was made in the mid 60’s in the USA. Or was the story about the US serviceman just an interesting side note and not meant to imply it was a rare 1950’s performance part from Germany? |
No, you have to go back to the first page of this thread. The 50's serviceman bit has changed, to a guy having owned it since 1960. |
| bmweuro wrote: |
He does not know the service man but the guy he got it from has had it since 1960. Based on the patent info do you agree he is right or should we still question what it is?
Chris |
This implies that it was purchased from the “guy” that bought it from the serviceman in 1960! Either way 1960 is 4 year before the patent was applied for and 6 year before the patent granted. So if everything in that “story” is true then what we have here is an extremely rare item indeed. Let me recap. It would be a prototype of a smog pump or supercharger (is the jury still out on this part?) made in the good old USA in the 1950’s shipped to Germany to sell to a US serviceman who then sold it to un-named guy in 1960 and is now just surfaced and can be your for the unbelievable price of only $1800.oo. I almost left out the best part no one ever thought to install it so it is N.O.S. to top it all off. Which makes it really rare as most prototypes would have been used to test the product, but lucky us we can buy this N.O.S. prototype.
OK now seriously, I am not trying to bag on anyone I just wanted to point out that the AD was a bit misleading and even after the story changed it was still made out to be older that the facts showed.
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53 0val
Samba Professor
Joined: July 03, 2003
Posts: 11396
Location: Irvine, CA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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I love the $1800 price..................just popped into someone's head, I guess. No comparables, just a "round" number....................... 
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bmweuro
Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2004
Posts: 242
Location: Chico, CA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 12:41 am Post subject: |
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Here is what I was told. My friend got it from a good friend of his that has had it since 1960. The friends friend got it from the Service man. The bottom line is IT IS A SMOG PUMP!!! not some cool altra rare part like he thought it was. END OF STORY!!!!!
Chris |
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EverettB
Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 69829
Location: Phoenix Metro
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John Moxon
Samba Moderator
Joined: March 07, 2004
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Location: Southampton U.K.
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voodooracer
Samba Member
Joined: November 04, 2008
Posts: 2
Location: North Augusta, SC, USA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 4:27 am Post subject: Please help me find this smog pump |
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Please don't lock this subject yet!!
In 2004, a fellow by the name of Fritz Kott set an AMA record at Bonneville on his 750cc flathead Harley using this very same pump. Have been searching for info and availability on these things for a while now, would like to use one on my CR500 dragbike.
Any info pertaining to the years and models these things came on would be greatly appreciated.
Keith LeBlanc |
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John Moxon
Samba Moderator
Joined: March 07, 2004
Posts: 13957
Location: Southampton U.K.
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| Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:21 am Post subject: |
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OK, I've just unlocked this topic as Tom Bruch PMed me yesterday with an interesting update which I thought some of you'd like to read.
That doesn't mean it's open season again on this topic...the first one to speculate on using it on a VW gets sent to the Sin-Bin for two weeks.
| Bvilletom wrote: |
I noticed this thread on the VW site (The Samba) and then again in LSR.com by Keith LeBlanc. I raced a blown Honda S-90 in the seventies for 2 years with the same smog pump (blower) at Bonneville. I worked for Porsche & VW then & these little blowers came to the U.S. on ’68 or ’69 912 Porsches as a smog pump. I wondered then why a U.S. made pump came from Germany on a new Porsche 912 but looking back it was probably a stop-gap measure to make the car meet tightening smog laws. They were driven at about 2:1 with a vee belt on the 912’s and they didn’t live too long (20-30k miles) spinning up to about 12k rpm. What happened was the bearings in the gears ran out of oil and it seized up and broke the belt. It is just a small roots blower with straight steel lobes and sealed bearings at one end. We threw a lot of them away and most owners didn’t put them back on in the Midwest. They didn’t appear to be something you could rebuild. You should be able to find one at some small old Porsche shops.
On the S-90 I drove it with a small chain on the generator side at about 1:1, and that was too much boost. It would make 20psi very quickly. Trying to supercharge a single-cylinder small motor is very difficult. It becomes a rhythmic, surging, pulsing, tuning nightmare. I tried blow-through, draw-through, long manifolds, very long manifolds, short ones, and all kinds of plenums. The surge was very violent. It accelerated like a 350cc, really pulling hard, and the next second it would shut off – about throwing you over the handlebars. It felt like the carb quit flowing air momentarily. We finally got it reasonable by making a plenum out of ½ of a propane torch cylinder with Homelite pyramid reed valves on each end to keep the charge going in the right direction. There was another guy from (I think) Riverside CA. doing the same thing and I think his name was Fletcher Izzard, also with an S-90.
I had no problems at all with the blower. I would say it’s not going to pressurize much more than a 200cc 4 stroke motor because it can’t flow enough volume of air. I ported mine a little bit.
The man that rode my bike was Mike McCann (Lisbon IA) who is the man with the large white sun block on his nose pushing Burt Munroe off the line in the out-takes of The World’s Fastest Indian movie. I then was the young guy hanging out at the old Chevy garage in Wendover during Speed Week listening to all these old guys, Burt, Mike, Rollie Free, and others drinking beer and bench racing - telling tall stories. It doesn’t get any better than that!
Bvilletom
Tom Bruch |
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voodooracer
Samba Member
Joined: November 04, 2008
Posts: 2
Location: North Augusta, SC, USA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 6:28 pm Post subject: Many thanks |
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Thanks Mr. Moxon for unlocking this thread and posting Tom's reply. This is really helpful, as I have been searching off and on for 2 years for just the 1st hand knowledge he was able to supply.
Thanks so much again.
Keith LeBlanc |
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earthquake
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Location: SANDY VALLEY, NEVADA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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When you say it only add 4hp remember that's 10%, Imagine if you could add 10% to a new Corvette ZR1 that would probably be a 1/2 a second in the 1/4 mile
Casey
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avus
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2005
Posts: 268
Location: Drain, Oregon
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:48 pm Post subject: vw supercharger |
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| I recall a guy on the landracing.com site formerly used one of these to supercharge a small Honda single cylinder motorcycle at Bonneville with some success. |
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IN2VWS
Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2006
Posts: 2521
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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This is well and good on a small motorcycle engine......but it isn't going to work on a VW engine.
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avus
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2005
Posts: 268
Location: Drain, Oregon
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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| IN2VWS wrote: |
| This is well and good on a small motorcycle engine......but it isn't going to work on a VW engine. |
My point exactly!
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EverettB
Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 69829
Location: Phoenix Metro
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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| earthquake wrote: |
| When you say it only add 4hp remember that's 10%, Imagine if you could add 10% to a new Corvette ZR1 that would probably be a 1/2 a second in the 1/4 mile |
That's not 4hp though so it's not a straight comparison.
That's like saying I make 10x more than you at work and we both get a 10% bonus for completing a project where we both did equal work. You would probably be pissed... 
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