GL 4 or GL 5 - "Official Gear Lube Topic"

[Wildthings]

[gears]

Swepco 201 organic GL5 has been used for millions upon millions of miles in various Porsche transaxles for over 30 years. These are as close as you'll find to VW transaxles. I'ver personally used this oil for over a decade in my VW vans. That said, there are many GL5 oils that neither I nor most Porsche shops would ever consider using.
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aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com

[Waldi]

[Waldi]

[gears]

Yeah .. Swepco 201 (rated at 375*F) was developed specifically for Porsche 935 race cars, in which the gear oil reaches temperatures of 325*F for hours on end. I can see how there'd be a longevity problem for us with our 150-175*F temperatures.
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aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com

[Waldi]

All i see is opening a gearbox with organic oil, inside all black. Opening my gearbox, all shinie aluminium. If you swepco is organic it cant stand the high temps without producing " impermissible aging products ". Maybe i am wrong, never have seen a gearbox with 100k and your swepco inside. Also the well known 2nd gear shifting problems on cold temps dont exist with synthetic oil.

Edit: as i know gear oil in racing cars is being changed after every race. So it does mean nothing, when its specialy made for racing cars.

[gears]

Well .. gears that last 200,000 miles in street cars last an average of 30 hours in a GT3 track car. I'd say whatever oil is used is put to the test.
_________________
aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com

[mark tucker]

thus racing oil that gets changed very often is not necessarily a good street oil that is forgoten for thousands of miles. the only thing I dont like about syn oil is it dosent climb like deno does. is there a good additive that will help it climb?I thought about a pint of moroso climbing gearlube with my syn.

[Waldi]

[Bruce]

[mark tucker]

yes I have a clean brain.and what display are you talking about? I try to steer clear of snake oils,my snake dosent squeek. but I have used a lot of moroso climbing gearlube and had good results and seen a lot of worn shit with outher gear oils. I ran murcury racings syn gearlube in my personal rearend when we were nolonger a moroso Wd dealer after moving from cars to offshore race boats in a different location.( and somehow I got the gear lube for free ) that mercury syn is thicker and seems to cling better that other syns Ive seen.. I nolonger have any of it wish i did.and it is expensive.stinkey too,I tend to think it has zinc in it too. we ran it ann only it in the speedmaster 3's&6's. and most other hiper drives too. I cant recall ever having a burnt up unit unless it had agua in it.

I wonder why with all the syn lube now that trans and rearends are being built & modifyed for a oil pump to pump the oil where it is needed? and what slings the oil up in the nose cone to the main shaft bearing on the no nut shafts????

[Bruce]

[Waldi]

[Wildthings]

One particular style gear box I worked on over the years originally specced 90wt and had a fill plug about a third of the way up the box from the bottom. Later boxes that were for all purposes identical were specced to run a 30wt motor oil and had the fill plug moved to half way up the box. Still later boxes were specced to run ATF with a pump and filter added and were filled 2/3rds of the way up. The later boxes ran much cooler and longer than the earlier boxes, so I converted all our older boxes over and the required maintenance dropped by probably 75% or so.

[mark tucker]

so...have we learned anything hear??? or just everybody has a preference and excuse.... I was looking at the gear lube I used to run(in my v8 rearends not vw's)(mercury racing 90 wt hiperformance) it no longer says synthetic on it , but says gl4.and over 100 hp. I know synthetic&water dont get along well.I wonder if they reformulated it and it's no longer synthetic. so i just used what Ive been using in my vw trans when i changed it today,mix of castrol synthetic,penisoil synthetic,and alittle less than a pint of good ole deno 75-90,highperformance valveoiline. so the quest for the best go's on.

[jpaull]

This specific version of Redline 75-90"NS" looks to be made exactly for our type of transaxles. Meets GL5+ but proper amount of friction modifiers so shifting is easy, proper viscosity/flow characteristics and proper load strength for hypoid gears. This is not to be confused with standard Redline "MTL" or "shockproof" that is NOT made for our transmissions.

http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=47&pcid=7

Bruce, I would love to hear if you have any experience with the "NS" version of this oil.



Jeff
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[email protected] MPH 1/4 Mile & 8.1 @ 83.7MPH in 1/8 Mile with Mild Type 1 VW Mag Case 2234cc commuter engine in stock weight bug w/only .491 total lift(CB2292 Cam), 42x37 heads, 48idf's, Street tires, Belt on, Mufflers, Pump gas, video of the run here: https://youtu.be/M3SPqMOKAOg

Transmission by MCMScott:
Rhino case, Klinkenberg 4.12, Superdiff, 002 mainshaft with 091 first idler. Weddle 1.48 Third & 1.14 Fourth.

[EVfun]

I would point out that the Beetle transaxle does not have hypoid gears. A hypoid final drive has the pinion above or below the center of the ring gear so the axis of the ring and the pinion do not intersect. This allows for a larger pinion gear but introduces a sliding contact.
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[Bruce]

[jpaull]

Thanks for Replying Bruce. You understand this stuff very well
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[email protected] MPH 1/4 Mile & 8.1 @ 83.7MPH in 1/8 Mile with Mild Type 1 VW Mag Case 2234cc commuter engine in stock weight bug w/only .491 total lift(CB2292 Cam), 42x37 heads, 48idf's, Street tires, Belt on, Mufflers, Pump gas, video of the run here: https://youtu.be/M3SPqMOKAOg

Transmission by MCMScott:
Rhino case, Klinkenberg 4.12, Superdiff, 002 mainshaft with 091 first idler. Weddle 1.48 Third & 1.14 Fourth.

[thebusandus]

I was going through the endless pages of this thread to see what more detailed information I could find so I can correctly choose a better MTF oil here in Argentina / Chile. The brands they carry are not the same so I am having to translate the back of bottles from spanish with oils mixed for Puegot's and Renaults. This led me to just look up the API ratings..

GL-4 Active The designation API GL-4 denotes lubricants intended for axles with spiral bevel gears operating under moderate to severe conditions of speed and load or axles with hypoid (see note)gears operating under moderate speeds and loads. These oils may be used in selected manual transmission and transaxle applications where MT-1 lubricants are unsuitable. The manufacturer's specific lubricant quality recommendations should be followed.


GL-5 Active The designation API GL-5 denotes lubricants intended for gears, particularly hypoid (see note) gears, in axles operating under various combinations of high-speed/shock load and low-speed/high-torque conditions.



MT-1 Active The designation API MT-1 denotes lubricants intended for non-synchronized manual transmissions used in buses and heavy-duty trucks. Lubricants meeting the requirements of API MT-1 service provide protection against the combination of thermal degradation, component wear, and oil-seal deterioration, which is not provided by lubricants in current use meeting only the requirements of API GL-1, 4, or 5.


GL-5 sounds like the better choice to me, it even seems that VW would have chosen it if they could have, but the MT-1 designation throws me off. Why would the OP of this topic and others recommend a GL-5 MT-1 rather than a GL-5 non MT-1 as the MT-1 designates a lubricant which is designed for non synchronized manual transmissions?
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2.2 Suby powered - 75 Westy - Rita

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