Author |
Message |
gerg a.k.a. 6volt65
Joined: April 25, 2003 Posts: 5454 Location: Monroe, LA
|
Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 12:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Nice work!
You just worked the threaded end down till it was close to the OD of the original plug?
I don't have access to a lathe or anything, and it looks like there should be a .040" clearance between the plug and the galley wall?
I like the idea, will probably do the same!
Thanks!
_________________ Gerg
. . . I got 99 problems and my bus ain't one . . .
'65 Sunroof Beetle
'65 Vert
'60 Singlecab |
|
Back to top |
|
|
gprudenciop Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2008 Posts: 606 Location: portland or
|
Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 12:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
no lathe just a grinder with a sanding disk and some calipers to measure |
|
Back to top |
|
|
gerg a.k.a. 6volt65
Joined: April 25, 2003 Posts: 5454 Location: Monroe, LA
|
Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 1:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Jimmy111 wrote: |
Ok what you need is to take a piece of aluminum that will fit with a interferance fit in the hole in the bearing saddle. cut it to about 20mm in length and drill a 3mm hole in the center. use a 10mm drill bit and cut a concave survace where the hole is so it wont push up against the bearing and cut off flow. Push it into the oil gallery. The reason for the concave surface is that the hole in the bearing is about 2mm and it may not line up correctly with the hole that you drilled. |
Jimmy - Just curious, could you explain how this helps if the hole in the bearing is only 2mm?
I am presuming that the 20mm length of stock with the 3mm hole is restricting the volume more than the hole in the bearing itself?
I have no background in fluid dynamics, pressure or volume (if you have not figured it out by now )
The machine shop removed my plug, and actually didn't see that the end came off and was inside the galley. It came out easily.
I read somewhere here that the oil hole in the #4 bearing may have been reduced in the past to the 2mm it is now to 'become' the restriction needed.
As someone else here asked, how is this handled in a newer aluminum case that is drilled and tapped already with no plug?
Thanks to ALL for the great feedback! _________________ Gerg
. . . I got 99 problems and my bus ain't one . . .
'65 Sunroof Beetle
'65 Vert
'60 Singlecab |
|
Back to top |
|
|
bugninva Samba Member
Joined: December 14, 2004 Posts: 8858 Location: sound it out.
|
Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 9:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
gerg wrote: |
I read on the CLF that some have removed that plug and nevr had a problem.
|
I always remove that plug and have never put in a restriction... these are on street engines, and *never* the issues Jimmy had spoke of... I can't discount what Jimmy says *could* happen, but I can say 100% for sure that I've never experienced them..(and neither have countless others) _________________
[email protected] wrote: |
With a show of hands, who has built over 1000 engines in the last 25 years? Anyone? |
GEX has. Just sayin |
|
Back to top |
|
|
gerg a.k.a. 6volt65
Joined: April 25, 2003 Posts: 5454 Location: Monroe, LA
|
Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 9:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks for the feedback.
Out of curiosity, do you run a sand seal?
I was just chatting with someone whom I believe removes that same plug and he has a mist at sustained RPMs . . . .sounds like it may be the lack of restriction.
Thanks bugninva! _________________ Gerg
. . . I got 99 problems and my bus ain't one . . .
'65 Sunroof Beetle
'65 Vert
'60 Singlecab |
|
Back to top |
|
|
bugninva Samba Member
Joined: December 14, 2004 Posts: 8858 Location: sound it out.
|
Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 9:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
no sand seal here, and never been afraid of high RPMs.... keep my engines clean, never an oil problem... like I said, I can't say those things can't happen, but can say they haven't to me.. _________________
[email protected] wrote: |
With a show of hands, who has built over 1000 engines in the last 25 years? Anyone? |
GEX has. Just sayin |
|
Back to top |
|
|
gerg a.k.a. 6volt65
Joined: April 25, 2003 Posts: 5454 Location: Monroe, LA
|
Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 9:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Cool - Thanks! _________________ Gerg
. . . I got 99 problems and my bus ain't one . . .
'65 Sunroof Beetle
'65 Vert
'60 Singlecab |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ALB Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2008 Posts: 3480 Location: beautiful suburban Wet Coast of Canada
|
Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 10:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Bugninva- How many miles do your engines go between teardowns?
Just curious. Al _________________ On a lifelong mission to prove (much to my wife's dismay) that Immaturity is Forever!! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
bugninva Samba Member
Joined: December 14, 2004 Posts: 8858 Location: sound it out.
|
Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 11:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
i usually get rid of the cars before the enignes need tear downs.... I can't tell you how they act after extremely high mileage, but i've had no problems pulling that restrictor plug with engines up to 40-60k or so... my current engine has about 15k on it(hard turbo charged miles) and no issues... _________________
[email protected] wrote: |
With a show of hands, who has built over 1000 engines in the last 25 years? Anyone? |
GEX has. Just sayin |
|
Back to top |
|
|
gerg a.k.a. 6volt65
Joined: April 25, 2003 Posts: 5454 Location: Monroe, LA
|
Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
My first attempt at the cap screw / 1/8" NPT plug. Tapped nicely, fits nice too.
Aparently the aluminum case has a lager passage there. The plug that came out was over 6mm in diameter rather than the 5.40mm shown in Jimmy's drawing.
_________________ Gerg
. . . I got 99 problems and my bus ain't one . . .
'65 Sunroof Beetle
'65 Vert
'60 Singlecab |
|
Back to top |
|
|
gerg a.k.a. 6volt65
Joined: April 25, 2003 Posts: 5454 Location: Monroe, LA
|
Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 11:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
Putting this in today. I was going to thread lock the cap screw into the plug with Loctite, then 565 loctite the plug into the case.
Any other words of wisdon here?
gprudenciop - did your solution work well for you? _________________ Gerg
. . . I got 99 problems and my bus ain't one . . .
'65 Sunroof Beetle
'65 Vert
'60 Singlecab |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ALB Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2008 Posts: 3480 Location: beautiful suburban Wet Coast of Canada
|
Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 11:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
Gerg- Nice work on the brass fitting; I rounded mine out even more! Didn't have to do too much to the sheetmetal to make it fit. It doesn't look to bad either! Al
I also like your restrictor solution. _________________ On a lifelong mission to prove (much to my wife's dismay) that Immaturity is Forever!! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
gprudenciop Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2008 Posts: 606 Location: portland or
|
Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
just to let everybody know it works perfect except that you have to grind down the head of the bolt a little becouse it will not allow your pulley to move freely(endplay)and rubs on your tin. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
buglover34465 Samba Member
Joined: June 22, 2008 Posts: 65
|
Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 1:52 pm Post subject: I added the orifice to rebalance the flow to the # 4 bearing |
|
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
tstracy39 Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2008 Posts: 3294 Location: Seattle, WA
|
Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 8:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Just finished installing case savers and pipe plugs on a stripped down AE case. I got the 1/16 NPT pipe plugs from McMaster Carr, went with brass plugs. The 3/8 plug in the bellhousing and the 1/4 plug at the top behind the distributor needed to be rounded off at the tip so they wouldn't restrict the flow through the galleries that go across. Didn't mess with the restrictor plug, I intend to use a full flow filter so I figure it'll catch any grit that may be behind the restrictor. Tried to swage the plug I installed in the oil pump in place and failed miserably, is there any trick to swaging the metal? Will try to get around to taking a couple pics. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
EvolveES Samba Member
Joined: June 18, 2008 Posts: 261 Location: longmont CO
|
Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:38 pm Post subject: Re: I added the orifice to rebalance the flow to the # 4 bea |
|
|
Hello, i have been following this thread, and have some questions, first of all, why would you want to remove all of the plugs, is it just for cleaning the passages, i have never seen one leak before? Is it better to have tapped plugs than the stock press in ones? I am really tempetd to do this to my next case as well. If the case is aluminum should this still be done?
And with regards to the above picture, can you explain a little bit what you did? it looks like you tapped the gally to the bearing and fitted it with a threaded plug that has been drilled out, i had a similar idea. Is this what you did? and if so how has it worked out?
Thanks for all the help |
|
Back to top |
|
|
piledriver Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2003 Posts: 184 Location: In my bunker, beside my wall. (Howe, Tx)
|
Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 6:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Calculate this, batman:
Bearing to crank oil clearance...
The bearing to crank clearance/ "orifice" area is far smaller than even the stepped plug, so THAT is effectively the restriction, pretty much regardless of what you do upstream.
The stepped plug only traps garbage and needs to be removed.
Anything more than a pipe plug is a waste of effort.
This whole thread is like the BS people argue over re: rod side clearance and oil pressure--- The BEARING clearance around the rod journal is the effective orifice, the side clearance has ~ no effect, as the "orifice" area is >100X larger.
No, I have no idea what VW was thinking when they designed that, perhaps it was INTENDED as a "chunk filter". |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Jake Raby Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2003 Posts: 7433 Location: Aircooled Heaven USA
|
Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 7:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Rod side clearance does impact actual oil pressure, but it's impact is directly related to actual bearing running clearance. _________________ Jake Raby
Raby Engine Development
www.rabyenginedevelopment.com
"I've never given anyone Hell, I just told them the truth and they thought it was Hell" |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Bob Hoover Samba Member
Joined: December 14, 2004 Posts: 64
|
Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 1:09 pm Post subject: Re: I added the orifice to rebalance the flow to the # 4 bea |
|
|
70-1914-blackw/chrome wrote: |
why would you want to remove all of the plugs, is it just for cleaning the passages |
----------------------------------------------------------------
Yes. Typically for engines that have been align-bored but also for any that have been opened up to accept bigger jugs. There are a couple of 90degree corners in the oil passage-ways that makes them impossible to clean with the usual blast from an air hose. If you send your crankcase to a reputable shop experienced in VW engines to have either of those chores performed, it will be returned with the plugs pulled & threaded to accept the plugs which will be included with the returned crankcase.
This is another of the many steps deemed 'unimportant' by the typical shade-tree expert.
-Bob Hoover |
|
Back to top |
|
|
buglover34465 Samba Member
Joined: June 22, 2008 Posts: 65
|
Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 6:26 pm Post subject: plug |
|
|
I used Jimmy411's idea of a plug with a hole drilled into it. I bought aluminum rod drilled a a 3mm hole into it, then I sanded the rod down to just slightly larger than the oil passage hole in the #4 bearing. I then cut it to 20mm. I froze the new aluminium plug then inserted it by tapping it in just slightly below the bearing surface. Once it warmed up it was permanently in. I cleaned the oil passages with air again after inserting this flow balancer, which is there to keep the required oil flow amount at the number 3 bearing. From earlier "Jimmy111
Samba Member
Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 11:31 am Post subject:
Ok what you need is to take a piece of aluminum that will fit with a interferance fit in the hole in the bearing saddle. cut it to about 20mm in length and drill a 3mm hole in the center. use a 10mm drill bit and cut a concave survace where the hole is so it wont push up against the bearing and cut off flow. Push it into the oil gallery. The reason for the concave surface is that the hole in the bearing is about 2mm and it may not line up correctly with the hole that you drilled." [/img] |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|