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Mongo63
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Joined: February 15, 2007
Posts: 1364
Location: prison city, IL
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 Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:03 am Post subject: |
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| didget69 wrote: | Mongo - I was waiting for a response on 'Busa reliability.... 12 minutes, a new record... 
Great reliability when hammered pushing 400-500lb bike & 200+ lb rider; now let's add the 1200+ lb buggy into equation + 300-400 lbs of passengers & see how reliability curve looks...
That being said, I'd still like to try it!
bnc |
Busa motor is what, 100 pounds? Makes 155 HP and 80 or so ft. lbs. TQ. A type one engine makes 50 HP and 40 or so ft. lbs. TQ and weighs 300 or so fully dressed? And the type one has been reliably pushing 2200 pound beetles around for 6 decades or so... it's all horsepower to weight and I really think if engineered properly could be one helluva a ride. Not to mention wrecked Busas and ZX11's can be had for 3 or 4K or about what you'd have in a base stroker longblock T1.
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Letterman7
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Joined: March 14, 2004
Posts: 1048
Location: Phila, PA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:22 am Post subject: |
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| Mongo63 wrote: | | didget69 wrote: | Mongo - I was waiting for a response on 'Busa reliability.... 12 minutes, a new record...
Great reliability when hammered pushing 400-500lb bike & 200+ lb rider; now let's add the 1200+ lb buggy into equation + 300-400 lbs of passengers & see how reliability curve looks...
That being said, I'd still like to try it!
bnc |
Busa motor is what, 100 pounds? Makes 155 HP and 80 or so ft. lbs. TQ. A type one engine makes 50 HP and 40 or so ft. lbs. TQ and weighs 300 or so fully dressed? And the type one has been reliably pushing 2200 pound beetles around for 6 decades or so... it's all horsepower to weight and I really think if engineered properly could be one helluva a ride. Not to mention wrecked Busas and ZX11's can be had for 3 or 4K or about what you'd have in a base stroker longblock T1. |
True, but it's the torque curve that counts. Beetle motors produce that right off the bat so the cars can at least move. Motorcycle engines don't produce any appreciable torque until they get past the 2K rpm range, usually.
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JiI
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Joined: February 18, 2006
Posts: 950
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:58 am Post subject: |
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Takes forever to load on dial-up!
JiI |
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didget69
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Joined: July 22, 2004
Posts: 940
Location: Capital, North Carolina
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| Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 10:38 am Post subject: |
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| Mongo63 wrote: | | didget69 wrote: | Mongo - I was waiting for a response on 'Busa reliability.... 12 minutes, a new record...
Great reliability when hammered pushing 400-500lb bike & 200+ lb rider; now let's add the 1200+ lb buggy into equation + 300-400 lbs of passengers & see how reliability curve looks...
That being said, I'd still like to try it!
bnc |
Busa motor is what, 100 pounds? Makes 155 HP and 80 or so ft. lbs. TQ. A type one engine makes 50 HP and 40 or so ft. lbs. TQ and weighs 300 or so fully dressed? And the type one has been reliably pushing 2200 pound beetles around for 6 decades or so... it's all horsepower to weight and I really think if engineered properly could be one helluva a ride. Not to mention wrecked Busas and ZX11's can be had for 3 or 4K or about what you'd have in a base stroker longblock T1. |
Hey Mongo -
I'm with you brother - I'd love to build one, and use a 1 liter+ motor! Bike motor will just have a different power curve than T1 motor, so driving style has to adjust slightly, and a serious clutch pack would prove beneficial in getting the buggy rolling is all that Letterman & I are pointing out...
Crap - now I may have to rethink the T4 motor in the SR... 
bnc
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- 1971 Superbeetle Convertible - 1641 engine
- 19XX Bradley GT II project
Knowledge Properly Applied is Power - yet few seem to know, understand, or apply this principle...
Ghia: "The diameter, holes for admission is more big on your heads." |
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Jimmler
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Joined: November 18, 2004
Posts: 262
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| Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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I have toyed with the idea of using a 1.0l/3 cyl Geo Metro/Suzuki Swift drive train for the next dune buggy project. I know there were some turbo'd Swifts, which would also be cool. Obviously I wouldn't be trying to set the land speed record; just looking for something different.
Flaboyjim had posted a picture of a Toyota powered buggy where the entire FWD system was transplanted into the back. That design intrigues me.
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Mongo63
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Location: prison city, IL
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| Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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And a small turbo running say 6 pounds will easily make 250 HP on a busa... :idea:The record for raw HP on a busa is 701 or something ridiculous. I think if gear ratios were well chosen it could be feasible.
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kevinwilson
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Joined: November 27, 2006
Posts: 16
Location: Harrogate, England
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:35 am Post subject: |
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when you say a buggy will weigh 1200 is that using a beetle chasis. Was thinking about using a tube frame making it as lite as possible then using a z car type of set up. I dont think that it would weigh that much more than a z car mini
quicktime video of the kit
http://www.zcars.org.uk/videos/qt/miniwhatyouget.mov
for the website here and media player version of the kit
http://www.zcars.org.uk/mini/conversion.htm
Thanks for the help guys please keep it coming |
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MURZI
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Joined: August 25, 2005
Posts: 1936
Location: Madisonville, La
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:49 am Post subject: |
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I just came back from Disney World, and at one the shows, they had about 9 'busa powered cars and I can tell you they hauled bahonky.
The engines were coupled to a special casted transaxle for the application. They were wicked fast. I have it on video if anybody is interested. I can email....too big to host w/o editing.
michaelmurzi "AT" charter dot net
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kevinwilson
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Joined: November 27, 2006
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Location: Harrogate, England
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 7:28 am Post subject: |
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| MURZI wrote: | I just came back from Disney World, and at one the shows, they had about 9 'busa powered cars and I can tell you they hauled bahonky.
The engines were coupled to a special casted transaxle for the application. They were wicked fast. I have it on video if anybody is interested. I can email....too big to host w/o editing.
michaelmurzi "AT" charter dot net |
please email em to us
kevin-wilson@hotmail.co.uk
cheers mate |
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MickeyUSA
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Location: Riverview, FL
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MURZI
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Joined: August 25, 2005
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Location: Madisonville, La
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:18 am Post subject: |
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I am thinking adapt a FWD transaxle out of something common a make a mid engine buggy. Celica???
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BRAC--Baton Rouge Air Coolers
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MURZI
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Jimmler
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Joined: November 18, 2004
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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That was very cool!
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didget69
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Joined: July 22, 2004
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Location: Capital, North Carolina
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| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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I know that a dressed 2004 Suzuki GSXR 600 motor weighs about 175 lbs complete with exhaust, muffler, airbox & wiring harness...
bnc
_________________
- 1971 Superbeetle Convertible - 1641 engine
- 19XX Bradley GT II project
Knowledge Properly Applied is Power - yet few seem to know, understand, or apply this principle...
Ghia: "The diameter, holes for admission is more big on your heads." |
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rhumphrey7
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Joined: April 16, 2009
Posts: 1
Location: TEXAS
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| Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:02 am Post subject: V_Twin powered Buggy |
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| I attached a Harley 88 V-Twin to Type 1 Swing Axle using a special patented adapter. Send me an email for pics[/img] |
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didget69
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Joined: July 22, 2004
Posts: 940
Location: Capital, North Carolina
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| Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 3:18 pm Post subject: Re: V_Twin powered Buggy |
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| rhumphrey7 wrote: | | I attached a Harley 88 V-Twin to Type 1 Swing Axle using a special patented adapter. Send me an email for pics[/img] |
http://lowster.net/duncan_004.htm
bnc
_________________
- 1971 Superbeetle Convertible - 1641 engine
- 19XX Bradley GT II project
Knowledge Properly Applied is Power - yet few seem to know, understand, or apply this principle...
Ghia: "The diameter, holes for admission is more big on your heads." |
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SpitnSpatz
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Joined: February 01, 2009
Posts: 42
Location: wilmington, delaware
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| Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 4:30 pm Post subject: Re: V_Twin powered Buggy |
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| didget69 wrote: | | rhumphrey7 wrote: | | I attached a Harley 88 V-Twin to Type 1 Swing Axle using a special patented adapter. Send me an email for pics[/img] |
http://lowster.net/duncan_004.htm
bnc |
If you could keep it on the light side, the HD engine is a more logical motorcycle engine to use...nice low end torque, air-cooled, loads of aftermarket, available up to 1540cc (stock) with fuel injection, and of course that rumble...
...Unfortunately, the Lowster guys don't actually have any adapters to sell...it seems production never got off the ground. However, Rewaco, a trike company, sells a well designed adapter to put a HD motor against a VW transaxle, but at $2200 a pop, you could be well on the way to adapting whatever you wanted into a buggy...including a screamer like the Busa engine...
...Keep in mind...if you did adapt a motorcycle engine using a VW transaxle (to keep reverse for instance) using an adequate automotive flywheel/clutch could wreak havoc on a motorcycle engine crankshaft...they are designed to turn a primary chain in most cases and not designed for the added stresses that a transaxle would require...
....check this HD powered buggy out (maybe rhumphrey7?): http://www.volksrods.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19257&highlight=evolyn
...maybe one day I'll swap the engine from my Fatboy into my buggy...always thought it would be cool to have a VW powered motorcycle...hhhmmm.... 
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bdkw1
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Joined: December 08, 2008
Posts: 467
Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 1:13 am Post subject: Re: V_Twin powered Buggy |
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| SpitnSpatz wrote: | If you could keep it on the light side, the HD engine is a more logical motorcycle engine to use...nice low end torque, air-cooled, loads of aftermarket, available up to 1540cc (stock) with fuel injection, and of course that rumble...
...Keep in mind...if you did adapt a motorcycle engine using a VW transaxle (to keep reverse for instance) using an adequate automotive flywheel/clutch could wreak havoc on a motorcycle engine crankshaft...they are designed to turn a primary chain in most cases and not designed for the added stresses that a transaxle would require... |
An HD motor would be a very poor choice for a rear engine car without some sort of fan set up. Taking it out of the air stream and placing it in a vehicle that weighs 3 times as much would be a recipe for severe over heating.
The best bike motor to use while still retaining the shifting of the VW tranny would be a Yamaha snowmobile motor. Just like an R1 motor only no trans. They do however have a nice gear reduction built in to keep the tranny input shaft speeds under control. |
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SpitnSpatz
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Joined: February 01, 2009
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Location: wilmington, delaware
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| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 3:48 pm Post subject: Re: V_Twin powered Buggy |
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| bdkw1 wrote: | | An HD motor would be a very poor choice for a rear engine car without some sort of fan set up. Taking it out of the air stream and placing it in a vehicle that weighs 3 times as much would be a recipe for severe over heating. |
Ok...so put an electric fan with simple tins on it kinda like what VW did with the flat four...synthetic oil and an oil cooler help matters greatly also...
...as for pushing a heavier vehicle? Trikes and side cars...Full dressers with a trailer and 2 passengers...Sportster powered Model Ts!! (http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2008/05/31/harley-davidson-sportster-powered-ford-model-t/)...all hold up well under some pretty heavy strains...
...Sorry, I disagree with you. As much as I can appreciate the performance of crotch rockets and snowmobiles, I would go for the raw torque and simplicity of the HD...they have come a long way since the Shovelhead...
...I'm a VW guy and I'm a Harley nut too...Does it show? 
...just my opinion and it stinks like everybody elses!
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lostinbaja
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Joined: December 19, 2004
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Location: Frankfort, Illinois
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| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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In the big scheme of things, a HD engine is basically a low performance air cooled motorcycle engine, why wouldn't you want to increase the performance of the vehicle by using a HP liquid cooled motorcycle engine?
IMHO switching from a ACVW to a HD engine would be a giant step backwards.
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