High MPG Ideas / Discussion

[rayjay]

I have been contemplating building a high MPG vehicle and have been doing a lot of web surfing for info and ideas about current high mpg production vehicles. Last year Dune Buggys and Hot VWs Magazine was doing a high MPG engine build up. Has this project made it to the street yet ? If so, what were the results ?

One area of the air cooled VW that seems like it might could bear fruit for increased MPG is the engine driven cooling fan. I think it is the Berg site that mentions needing to keep the revs up so that there is plenty of air flow [ this is pertaining to their 5sp conversion ]. I hadn't thought of that aspect of air cooled engine usage. On a liquid cooled engine tall gearing works good for mpg but on an aircooled not so much due to engine cooling requirements.

Here is one idea I had. Would it be possible to fit effective ramair ducts to supply the engine's cooling needs at speeds of 40 or 50 mph and higher ? If so you could fit the cooling fan with some sort of clutch to disengage it at some certain speed. The ducts would have to not compromise the aerodynamics too much or else there would be no net gain.

Would it be possible to fit electric fans and blowers to replace the engine driven fan ?? Would the extra load on the alternator offset the gain ?????

Has anyone done dyno tests to see how much power the std cooling fan absorbs ????? Is there info available about how much CFM the std cooling fan supplies at various RPMs ?

What RPM is a stock mid 70's beetle turning at say 65 mph ?

If anyone else is interested in high MPG please chime in with your ideas !

Thanks
rj

[volkaholic1]

Before you go modifying the engine, get the basics taken care of.
1 - lower rolling resistanace, tall skinny tires. Stock tires are much better than low profile wide tires.

2 - Run higher tire pressures. I picked up 2.6 mpg at highway speed by running 45 psi in my tires instead of 35 psi. I've got the data to prove it.

3 - better aerodynamics on a bug or ghia, it will never be great, but a lower the front end helps

4 - go easy on the gas pedal, mild acceleration

5 - don't speed

[70VWkid]

in my 1835 with vz15 cam,ported 40X35.5 heads,1.5 inch exaust and 40 webbers with 28 vents i got 24 mpg on the highway in the hills. and i dont drive slow. so its very possible to get better than that.
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[nextgen]

I thought the same about lowering the front end being better, wrong. A lower front end makes a larger foot print as it attacks the air. The best is a level lowered car.

My front it dropped and I love the look so I live with it.

As for better gas milage, Fuel Injection, Computerized Igniton, Tall 4th gear. Thin tires with higher pressure.

I know you have the engine but---- the highest compression you can go on regular gas.
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[jamestwo]

Electric cooling fans, wonder why no one has thought of that?

P>S.Northside would mercy rule the Buford wolves
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[Fibersport]

x2 on volkaholic's comments. Also, substitute electronics for points, good for at least 1-2 mpg, keep the engine tuned frequently, anticipate stops, back off on the choke setting, minimal warm-ups and probably keep the windows closed. I'm running points again and am getting a solid 30-32 with a 1641 at 65mph.
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[Max Welton]

[Jimmy111]

Jamestwo is kidding. But he has them on his race car.

If you want economy, you need to sacrifice power. They dont go hand in hand. At freeway speeds there isnt much of a differance. Sometimes the performance motor will get even better economy because it is built to be more efficient. But to get economy around town you need to have low power. Because eveytine you step on the gas to accelerate, you will use a majority of your available power and your economy will suffer.
So, go with a 1300 and a small carb. use headers and the old style narrow fan. do the tire and gearing as sugested. empty all the junk from the trunk and wax your car

[Lionhart94010]

FYI on one Mileage Motor project…

Hot VWs Project Mileage Motor (currently on part 12 of the story)
---------
1745cc with stock 85.5mm pistons and a stroker 76mm

a goal of obtaining 40 miles-per-gallon in a stock trim, street-driven VW Beetle

On the dyno at Jack Sacchette's JayCee Enterprises the engine stunned even us, producing a maximum of 92.5 horsepower at 5,000 rpm, and 120.8 ft.-lbs. of torque at 2,500 rpm!
----------
You can see most of the articles for free at the CB Performance web sight at URL below
http://www.cbperformance.com/articles.asp

What about a 1500cc hi compression MegaSquirt Fuel infected engine w/ECU controlled timing?

Doing some development work and getting a well documented MegaSquirt conversion for T1 motors could really help a lot of people :0)
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thesamba - www.ratwell.com - www.shoptalkforums.com/ - www.vw-resource.com - http://www.type2.com/
http://bobhooversblog.blogspot.com/ - www.aircooled.net/gnrlsite/resource/articles.htm

[miniman82]

I have a documented project, but it's not about mileage.
Who knows? Maybe I'll post the MPG of the turbo engine; if I ever find out.
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[rayjay]

Thanks for the link to the CB article page . I did find this page with some fan info. http://www.offroadvw.net/tech/wes/fan.html

My original thought was to remove the fan housing and duct the scoop[s] directly to the cylinder tin. It would also be possible to duct the scoop to the air inlet on the fan housing. This might work best on a dune buggy.

I think the old air cooled super vees used to run no tin and just had the topends out in the breeze. I wonder if their cht's were ok.

[Type 4 Unleashed]

A friend mentioned a square motor for gas milage, something like a 2141-88 x 88, or how about a 1964 - 85.5 x 85.5 ? Or even better still a 2290 , 90 x 90

[vwracerdave]

The big problem with the Hot VW's milage project is they do not care how much it cost to get their 40 MPG goal. They will spend more money in parts for the engine then they will ever save in fuel cost.
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[millerje78]

[rayjay]

Although there is lots of useful info published in magazines, one needs to remember that for the most part all the articles are infomercials for the advertisers.

[[email protected]]

I could get another 8-10mpg out of that motor in an hour.

John
Aircooled.Net Inc.
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[rayjay]

I think they need to try a 3.44 R&P. The thing really responded to the 3.88 so the 3.44 might be the hot tip.

I would like to see them maximize the mpg in the beetle and then put the engine and tranny in a well prepped Ghia to see how much difference the better aero makes.

The Ghia would also be better suited to ram air cooling

[mharney]

I am knocking on the 30mpg door in my 70 Bay bus. I have acheived 28mpg, and will have 30mpg in the next few weeks, on dual DRLA 40s.

My air fuel ratios are very high. I spend most of my time in the 16's, sometimes 17's, and it runs very well. When I put my foot in it, the ratio goes closer to 13. My head temps are lower than they have ever been too.

[miniman82]

I did the same thing to my engine, it normally runs 16:1 at cruise. Amazing what a differance some actual tuning makes, isn't it?
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Hey John, if you could get another 8-10 MPG out of the HotVW's Milage Motor, what would you do?