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Lil Lulu
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Joined: December 08, 2007
Posts: 1745
Location: Mouth of the Columbia
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 Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 9:12 am Post subject: fuel pump relay |
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Evidently, the PO had this Facet electric fuel pump powered from the coil. I have heard of a safer fuel pump relay but no amount of searching (I have never been able to find threads pertaining to any of my questions with the search function, all I get on this is threads that have nothing to do with this relay or even the fuel pump) has led me to a part number, image or wiring diagram.
Maybe I'm searching for the snipe again like with the trans hanger sealing rings.
I have a 2L with dual W 40's.
Can anyone shed some light on this?
RB
_________________
'65 Beetle "Lil' Lulu"- Ruby Red
1600 stock from '71 bus
'72 Deluxe - Niagara Blue w/pastelwiess Camper Special 2L dual 40 Webers 002
'74 Hightop Weekender "Dixie" 1800 34 Del singles |
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busman78
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Joined: August 17, 2004
Posts: 4523
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
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ToolBox
Samba Member
Joined: January 27, 2004
Posts: 3439
Location: Detroit, where they don't jack parts off my ride in the parking lot of the 7-11
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| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 9:33 am Post subject: |
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Use a Rabbit FP Relay.
| coolerthanelvis wrote: |
You could also add a Rabbit fuel pump relay:
The relay would cut off power to the valve any time the engine is not running. |
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Lil Lulu
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Joined: December 08, 2007
Posts: 1745
Location: Mouth of the Columbia
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| Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you gentlemen- That's just what I need.
_________________
'65 Beetle "Lil' Lulu"- Ruby Red
1600 stock from '71 bus
'72 Deluxe - Niagara Blue w/pastelwiess Camper Special 2L dual 40 Webers 002
'74 Hightop Weekender "Dixie" 1800 34 Del singles |
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rustbus
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Joined: June 18, 2009
Posts: 2078
Location: alberta
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| Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 1:34 am Post subject: |
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heres the dumb question!
I fired up my bus today first time on a fuel pump relay triggered to Coil # 1 terminal.
The relay can be heard clicking madly. very rapid. it works, the pump pumps and the bus runs. is this the way its supposed to be? does the realy click endlessly while the bus is on?
Just looking for some comfort or if I should wire it different
thanks
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May of '72 Deluxe.  2.0L L-Jet CS & 091 trans conversion
my Bus thread |
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Lil Lulu
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Joined: December 08, 2007
Posts: 1745
Location: Mouth of the Columbia
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| Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 5:55 am Post subject: |
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Just started the 72 CS yesterday for the first time and did not hear the relay clicking. The Facet fuel pump clicks but couldn't hear either when running. Used the relay that Toolbox suggested and connected it as shown.
_________________
'65 Beetle "Lil' Lulu"- Ruby Red
1600 stock from '71 bus
'72 Deluxe - Niagara Blue w/pastelwiess Camper Special 2L dual 40 Webers 002
'74 Hightop Weekender "Dixie" 1800 34 Del singles |
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Randy in Maine
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Joined: August 03, 2003
Posts: 34890
Location: The Beach
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busman78
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Joined: August 17, 2004
Posts: 4523
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
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| Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 7:58 am Post subject: |
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| If you mounted your pump on rubber isolators as all electric pumps should be the odds are you just bought your last fuel pump. |
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Wildthings
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Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50348
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| Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 9:35 am Post subject: |
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So you have a relay that is clicking madly, do you have it hooked up to the wrong side of the coi? it is supposed to be the #15 side and not the #1. Hook it up to the points side and it may click every time the points open and close.
Insufficient voltage or a bad ground could also cause it to click repeatedly. |
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rustbus
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Joined: June 18, 2009
Posts: 2078
Location: alberta
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| Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 9:51 am Post subject: |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
So you have a relay that is clicking madly, do you have it hooked up to the wrong side of the coi? it is supposed to be the #15 side and not the #1. Hook it up to the points side and it may click every time the points open and close.
Insufficient voltage or a bad ground could also cause it to click repeatedly. |
I have the "trigger" hooked up to #1 on the coil...like a tach! but thats whats stated above with the rabbit relay...my relay's just a little diferent than that rabbit one, but i'll try hooking it to the coil's 15 side....doesnt that then mean the relay will tigger with key on? i thoughts that was what this was to circumvent?
Grounds are all good, i'd have to confirm teh voltage situation
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May of '72 Deluxe. 2.0L L-Jet CS & 091 trans conversion
my Bus thread |
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Wildthings
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Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50348
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| Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 9:56 am Post subject: |
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| rustbus wrote: |
| Wildthings wrote: |
So you have a relay that is clicking madly, do you have it hooked up to the wrong side of the coi? it is supposed to be the #15 side and not the #1. Hook it up to the points side and it may click every time the points open and close.
Insufficient voltage or a bad ground could also cause it to click repeatedly. |
I have the "trigger" hooked up to #1 on the coil...like a tach! but thats whats stated above with the rabbit relay...my relay's just a little diferent than that rabbit one, but i'll try hooking it to the coil's 15 side....doesnt that then mean the relay will tigger with key on? i thoughts that was what this was to circumvent?
Grounds are all good, i'd have to confirm teh voltage situation |
With the rabbit relay the 31b needs to be hooked up to the #1 circuit and the #15 to the 12+ side of the coil.
Last edited by Wildthings on Mon Apr 12, 2010 10:21 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ToolBox
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Joined: January 27, 2004
Posts: 3439
Location: Detroit, where they don't jack parts off my ride in the parking lot of the 7-11
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| Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 9:52 am Post subject: |
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| rustbus wrote: |
| Wildthings wrote: |
So you have a relay that is clicking madly, do you have it hooked up to the wrong side of the coi? it is supposed to be the #15 side and not the #1. Hook it up to the points side and it may click every time the points open and close.
Insufficient voltage or a bad ground could also cause it to click repeatedly. |
I have the "trigger" hooked up to #1 on the coil...like a tach! but thats whats stated above with the rabbit relay...my relay's just a little diferent than that rabbit one, but i'll try hooking it to the coil's 15 side....doesnt that then mean the relay will tigger with key on? i thoughts that was what this was to circumvent?
Grounds are all good, i'd have to confirm teh voltage situation |
..
Needs to be a Rabbit relay to be hooked up like that. If you are using a standard fog relay yes it will click with every cycle of the points. Probably will fail because the duty cycle is not that high. |
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sameerpan
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Joined: January 28, 2010
Posts: 35
Location: Tampa, Florida
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| Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 9:00 am Post subject: no alternator power |
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How can i use two relays, one for starting, and one for running, but the running one not feed of of the charging system. If my belt brakes or alternator dies, I still want to be able to run the car
I was looking into the CB preformance rotary 3.5lbs
73 Westy 1700cc |
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busman78
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Joined: August 17, 2004
Posts: 4523
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
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| Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 9:04 am Post subject: |
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| If the alt goes out for whatever reason, jump a wire from the coil to the relay, this allows you to drive till repairs are made. |
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sameerpan
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Joined: January 28, 2010
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Location: Tampa, Florida
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| Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:03 am Post subject: |
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| thanks man |
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Oil Phil-M
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Joined: October 08, 2005
Posts: 541
Location: Vancouver, BC
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| Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:10 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| How can i use two relays, one for starting, and one for running, but the running one not feed of of the charging system. If my belt brakes or alternator dies, I still want to be able to run the car |
The fuel pump relay I picked up does both with a single unit which is what they are specifically designed to do. As soon as the relay gets power it allows the pump to run for a short period of time then powers off unless it starts sensing the distributer points cycling. The relay I got also has a built in fuse also which makes for a simple installation.
| Quote: |
| If the alt goes out for whatever reason, jump a wire from the coil to the relay, this allows you to drive till repairs are made. |
There are many places I can think of where I would not want to be in the situation of having to create a jump wire to get a vehicle in motion again. |
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busman78
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Joined: August 17, 2004
Posts: 4523
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
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| Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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Yea like making a quick get-a-way after getting caught with your best friends wife of after roobing a bank and the police are on the way.
Whether running one or two relays the possibility of a failure is the same, they are electrical devise and can fail, rarely, but it can happen, the cross over would be temporary at best. I suppose you would not change the fuse if that went out, being one of those places or situations again. |
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Oil Phil-M
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Joined: October 08, 2005
Posts: 541
Location: Vancouver, BC
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| Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| running one or two relays the possibility of a failure is the same, they are electrical devise and can fail |
True, but you are not talking about a relay failure. You're talking about connecting the relays to an engine system which on its own does not create an immediate failure should it stop working and creating a situation which now requires immediate (or the time to burn a float bowl full of fuel) action. Thats just bad engineering. If the electronics in your dizzy go kaput you're down already before you've burned your fuel in the bowls so it makes it a better option as the trigger provided you use a fuel pump relay and not just a relay.
I don't see the point in trying to engineer around not having to use an available part that has been designed to do the job correctly and engineering in a manner which makes the vehicle more suceptable to a breakdown. Things will go wrong and things break. Over the years I've worked to build in redundency not dependency, usually from situations which have left me walking. Reason why my oil pressure is monitored by two separate idiot light senders, an electric gauge and a mechanical gauge. From past experience each of these items have let me down but now the combo is there as backup.
As far as using my bus for bank robbing and messing around. I'm waiting for Jake and the Type IV store to release the Get-Away Special - a bi-turbo twin plug version of the Camper Special before I start my life as a bus drivin societal misfit, though some think I already am  |
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busman78
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Joined: August 17, 2004
Posts: 4523
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
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| Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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| I was under the impression we were discussing fuel pump relays, I use two, one only provides power to the pump when the starter is cranking, the other only when the alt is putting out power and trips from the regulator. Unless the alt is putting out a signal (turning with rpm) or the starter cranking the pump is off. If something goes wrong with the distributor then the engine dies, alt does not turn, no signal to the relay, no power to the pump. Am I missing something? |
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Oil Phil-M
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Joined: October 08, 2005
Posts: 541
Location: Vancouver, BC
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| Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:34 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| If something goes wrong with the distributor then the engine dies, alt does not turn, no signal to the relay, no power to the pump. Am I missing something? |
What you are saying here is correct but I'm comming from angle of preventing the fuel pump from stopping when it is NOT necessary. You don't need a functioning charging system (alternator, belt, wiring, regulator) to run a vehicle. The motor will run perfectly well for a period of time off of the battery should something go wrong with the charging system. If driving, that period of time is enough to get to a location which is safer and/or more convenient to make the fixes to your vehicle. BUT, if you connect your fuel delivery system to this charging system by means of a relay which needs a power signal from the alternator AND something goes wrong with the charging system you now have only a very brief period of time before you have a no-go vehicle. It might be enough to get to the side of the road or you might be on a long bridge on a dark rainy night.
Thats what I mean about engineering in a potential failure which doesn't need to be there. A fuel pump relay will need to be dependent on some type of a system which will only permit it to run when the engine is turning over or running. Better to make it dependent on a system which the motor cannot function without (such as the ignition system or oil pressure) than a system which the motor can function without for a period of time. |
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