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FreewheelinWesty Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2015 Posts: 72 Location: Norfolk, VA
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Posted: Mon May 18, 2020 9:33 am Post subject: Dual Carb Install on 2.3 GoWesty Motor |
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1984 Westy with 89’ syncro 2.3l GoWesty motor
This is write up on my experience setting up the Weber IDF dual carb kit for waterboxers from Aircooled.net.
The cost of everything that you need is approximately $1500
The kit comes with:
-2 carburetors
-2 intake manifold
-2 adapter plates
-gaskets
-linkage arm and components
-fuel hose/tee connections
For an extra $90 aircooled.net will set up your carbs for your elevation/engine, and I opted for that since I don’t have much experience setting up carbs.. Also, for $30 they’ll drill, tap, and provide the fittings needed for the power brake option that came on all N. American vans that I opted for. Both of these expenses are included in that $1500.
What I purchased along with the kit per the advice of aircooled.net:
-SVDA distributor
-appropriate plug wires
-appropriate spark plugs
-appropriate coil
-3.25 PSI fuel pump OR fuel pressure regulator
-Breather Box
-Steel braided wire with ferrules (to extend throttle cable)
-Snail Gauge Syncrometer (for syncing carbs up)
First I ripped everything FI out of the van; Manifold, injectors, wiring harness, air intake EVERYTHING. You will need literally none of it. Tape up the inlets to make sure nothing gets in there. Then I cleaned the engine as much as I could now that damn near everything was out of the way. After the engine bay was completely dry I wired up all the sensors that typically go to the gauge cluster up at the front. This is what I used for a guide:
blue/black - oil pressure switch 1
yellow/red - coolant temp sender, gauge
blue/green - coolant level sensor
skinny red/black - tach signal (from ign coil)
red/black – plug off, was starter signal for ECU
Black- power to the coil, comes on when the key is “On”
Install the new pump or fuel regulator I went with a new pump i. the same location as the old one. It grounded in the same location, however, I had to run a new power cable to the positive. In order to make it come on with they key I tapped into the black wire that also powers the coil, it wasn’t too bad running a new cable from the engine bay to the fuel pump.
I then installed the new coil in the original location of the old one.I plugged the wire going to the Tachometer on the negative and black power wire to the positive. Finally I installed the intakes/carbs and linkage arm. Run the fuel lines to each carb and plug off the return fuel hose it’s not needed. Connect the power brake hose to the tapped and fitted barb on the intake.
Install the the new SVDA distributor and set the static timing. The red wire goes to the positive spade on the new coil and the black goes to the negative. I won’t go into much detail there because there are sources online that do a much better job at describing than I could. I’d be happy to answer any questions though. Install new plugs and wires. The coil wire that goes to the center of the distributor that came was way too short so I ran out and bought a matching red one cut and crimped the new connector to make sure it all matched. I’ve heard of a guy reusing his original wire with success.
After that is set up and the static timing is set, crank that sucker and hear it come to life. Let it warm up and then sync up the carbs using the syncrometer.
Install breather box anywhere it fits, although not necessary for operation it will keep your engine bay cleaner.
I did have to do minor modification to the lid to keep the linkage arm from hitting it but it’s very minor.
It took me a weekend to do. Let me know if you have any questions! I am extremely happy with the way it turned out.
_________________ 1984 Vanagon Westfalia Wolfsburg Edition
Click to view image |
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Slimvest Samba Member
Joined: March 20, 2014 Posts: 431 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Mon May 18, 2020 10:10 am Post subject: Re: Dual Carb Install on 2.3 GoWesty Motor |
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Looks like you did a nice job. What motivated the change from FI? What kind of MPG are you seeing now? _________________ '87 GL w/ Reimo top |
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tjet Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2014 Posts: 3528 Location: CA & NM
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Posted: Mon May 18, 2020 11:47 am Post subject: Re: Dual Carb Install on 2.3 GoWesty Motor |
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I have that same kit, but I never installed it. It was on a used engine I bought a few years ago. I was planning on installing it, but I never bought a dual wideband o2 kit to make fine mixture adjustments. I did rebuild both carbs, & my air filters are a little taller. The other thing I did was weld on a wider flange footprint on the head side of the intakes. It seemed a little thin there, but I think the heads were ported or gasket matched at one time. Your intakes look different than the old kit. Mine did not use adapters. I don't think he had issues with the intakes though.
The pic below I added a like to show how thin the inboard side of the flange was.
Good luck. The previous owner said it ran very strong when it was dialed in. You should consider a wideband O2 kit to really dial it in. |
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Wellington Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2004 Posts: 1882 Location: Montreal
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Posted: Mon May 18, 2020 3:42 pm Post subject: Re: Dual Carb Install on 2.3 GoWesty Motor |
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Very cool, my experience with dual webers was on a 2 liter type 1 motor in a bug. I hope you bought authentic Webers and not BS empi crap.
Curious what you mpg and performance will be, EFI should have been better.
I'd recommend taller air filters if they ca clear the engine cover, and velocity stacks. |
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chompy Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2014 Posts: 400 Location: Cascade Locks
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Posted: Mon May 18, 2020 5:17 pm Post subject: Re: Dual Carb Install on 2.3 GoWesty Motor |
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Awesome! It must sound different as well. Maybe give us a video? _________________ '81 Westfalia Subaru EJ22
Manual Transmission |
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reservoirdubs Samba Member
Joined: April 07, 2007 Posts: 177 Location: Calgary (pronounced Calgree)
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Posted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 7:52 am Post subject: Re: Dual Carb Install on 2.3 GoWesty Motor |
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Thanks for the writeup. I'm curious as to what you have experienced in performance with this over the EFI set up. How is your engine performing with carbs? _________________ 1960 Canadian Custom
1970 Double Cab
1972 Porsche 914 |
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flemcadiddlehopper Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2011 Posts: 2332 Location: Kelowna, BC. Canada.
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Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2024 4:57 pm Post subject: Re: Dual Carb Install on 2.3 GoWesty Motor |
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I know this is an older thread but I am dealing with one of these on my Westy.
First of all this is my first westy, I have been more of an air-cooled guy before it arrived. It did already have the dual weber 40 IDFs already on it, and had many running problems related to it. After much fiddling around with them, they have been good...except that they are the early webers with the short air jets, so they continually get clogged. It also has the long 48 IDA intakes, leaving only room for 1.25" air filters. The amount of air going through those small filters means your are constantly cleaning them.
So, to combat this problem I have bought a set of type 3 intake manifolds and match ported them to the wasserboxer head. I added 3" velocity stacks to keep the same air charge length and was able to fit 6" air filter elements in.
I am in the midst of doing it all right now, but will report on all of the effects of my changes once completed. But here are a couple of teasers of the different fit.
Tall manifolds , underpull crossbar.
Short manifolds, top pull crossbar.
Just a prefit for measurements , more to come.
Gordo. _________________ Everybody Dies....Some Never Live.
Retrograde Garage. Vintage Aircooled, and others.
Last edited by flemcadiddlehopper on Mon Mar 04, 2024 4:24 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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bajabones Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2019 Posts: 133 Location: Tacoma, WA
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Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2024 9:03 pm Post subject: Re: Dual Carb Install on 2.3 GoWesty Motor |
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I was ready to get that kit
I ended up with a dual throttle body kit from the dub shop
The look & sound of webers but fuel injected without a distributor _________________ 1990 Syncro Doka
2.1 DJ
Triple Knob
Solid shaft |
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bajabones Samba Member
Joined: April 17, 2019 Posts: 133 Location: Tacoma, WA
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Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2024 10:16 am Post subject: Re: Dual Carb Install on 2.3 GoWesty Motor |
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What are you going to do about the breather? _________________ 1990 Syncro Doka
2.1 DJ
Triple Knob
Solid shaft |
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flemcadiddlehopper Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2011 Posts: 2332 Location: Kelowna, BC. Canada.
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Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2024 4:12 pm Post subject: Re: Dual Carb Install on 2.3 GoWesty Motor |
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The old breather was tossed. I bought a catch can with a drain. it is installed with a steady slope on the hoses. the booster hoses were also changed. all are -8an hose with an fittings.
One other note, the Webers are IDF 44s, not 40s as the seller stated they were.
I am just waiting on my air cleaner housings to have a lip (for holding the filter element in place) tig welded on them. There are still loads of old wires and EFI components to clean out of the engine compartment. All in due time, must squeeze some more adventures in first.
Gordo. _________________ Everybody Dies....Some Never Live.
Retrograde Garage. Vintage Aircooled, and others. |
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flemcadiddlehopper Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2011 Posts: 2332 Location: Kelowna, BC. Canada.
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Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2024 6:44 pm Post subject: Re: Dual Carb Install on 2.3 GoWesty Motor |
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I got the air cleaners back from welding and mounted them with the 6" filters. The left side clears the engine cover just barely, the right side the cover padding is touching the cleaner top. I will remove the foam padding from the hatch and replace it with dynomat(esque) sound deadening, which should give it about an inch and a half of clearance . Still waiting on proper euro fuel hose.
Massive compared to what was on it before.
The micro mesh covers should help with some of the longer dirt road sections of our adventures.
Gordo. _________________ Everybody Dies....Some Never Live.
Retrograde Garage. Vintage Aircooled, and others. |
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RoryGirl Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2016 Posts: 768 Location: WestWorld Nanaimo BC
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Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2024 9:34 pm Post subject: Re: Dual Carb Install on 2.3 GoWesty Motor |
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Looks sick! Reminds me of a sandrail...maybe paint the block neon green? |
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flemcadiddlehopper Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2011 Posts: 2332 Location: Kelowna, BC. Canada.
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Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2024 9:26 am Post subject: Re: Dual Carb Install on 2.3 GoWesty Motor |
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RoryGirl wrote: |
Looks sick! Reminds me of a sandrail...maybe paint the block neon green? |
Thanks....and,no to the neon green.
Looks are a bonus, all of this has been done for practicality. Those little 1.5" filters just don't cut it on the road to Bamfield. You, being from Nanaimo,B.C., must have done that trip? 170km return trip on the dustiest washboard on the planet. With huge tandem dump trucks passing you limiting your visibility to about your defroster vents. If you haven't done it, add it to your list...it is a must.
Gordo. _________________ Everybody Dies....Some Never Live.
Retrograde Garage. Vintage Aircooled, and others. |
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Bub Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2004 Posts: 1143 Location: Central Washington
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Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2024 10:37 am Post subject: Re: Dual Carb Install on 2.3 GoWesty Motor |
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How do you guys like the Carbs on a WBX ? Does it work out pretty well power and mileage -wise? No issues in cold weather startup or anything?
I've gone from Digi to Mansi fuel injection, but I honestly think I'll just end up putting carbs on my 2.2L . Marco's kit is GREAT, but the mileage is BAD and there doesn't seem to be a solution to it. I went from typical 20mpg average to around 12-14mpg with Marcos stuff, I can't live with that forever. _________________
hitest wrote: |
Had a girlfriend once who shall we say, nearly arrived at the mere sight of a semaphore in action- easy to please she was... |
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flemcadiddlehopper Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2011 Posts: 2332 Location: Kelowna, BC. Canada.
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Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2024 10:52 am Post subject: Re: Dual Carb Install on 2.3 GoWesty Motor |
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Bub wrote: |
How do you guys like the Carbs on a WBX ? Does it work out pretty well power and mileage -wise? No issues in cold weather startup or anything?
I've gone from Digi to Mansi fuel injection, but I honestly think I'll just end up putting carbs on my 2.2L . Marco's kit is GREAT, but the mileage is BAD and there doesn't seem to be a solution to it. I went from typical 20mpg average to around 12-14mpg with Marcos stuff, I can't live with that forever. |
Mileage is not too bad when on a road trip. We were getting close to 24mpg. In the city, no so good, as I tend to like the sound of it pulling hard through the gears.
Cold start...rough. It does start though, even at -26C. I have to dance on the throttle to keep it going for the first few minutes.
My long term plan is to install the CB Performance injection eventually.
Gordo. _________________ Everybody Dies....Some Never Live.
Retrograde Garage. Vintage Aircooled, and others. |
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tjet Samba Member
Joined: June 10, 2014 Posts: 3528 Location: CA & NM
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Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2024 1:59 pm Post subject: Re: Dual Carb Install on 2.3 GoWesty Motor |
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Bub wrote: |
How do you guys like the Carbs on a WBX ? Does it work out pretty well power and mileage -wise? No issues in cold weather startup or anything?
I've gone from Digi to Mansi fuel injection, but I honestly think I'll just end up putting carbs on my 2.2L . Marco's kit is GREAT, but the mileage is BAD and there doesn't seem to be a solution to it. I went from typical 20mpg average to around 12-14mpg with Marcos stuff, I can't live with that forever. |
I'm wondering if the power increase is making your right foot happier...Or the Marco kit keeps the mixture a little more on the performance side vs economy.
Anyhow, I can't answer your question since I have the stock efi, but on my 2.2 wbx, I found the stock exhaust to be fairly restrictive, even with a gutted cat and a new correct Dansk muffler. The RMW/tencent Tri-Y exhaust system really woke up my motor.
Remember, modifications in performance tend to expose the "next" weak link.
I sold that dual IDF kit, so I never had it installed. |
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MarkWard Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005 Posts: 17011 Location: Retired South Florida
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Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2024 8:33 am Post subject: Re: Dual Carb Install on 2.3 GoWesty Motor |
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Big fan of carbs including multiple carbs, but there is a learning curve to get them right. I appreciate the taller filters, but wonder if caps to a remote filter and ambient temp inlet wouldn’t be a better long term solution? There is quite a bit of heat in that area. Especially after a day of highway driving.
Also a big fan of standalone systems. Is Marco’s tune proprietary or password protected? Seems using a wide band sensor and a reasonable DAFR table you could do better than stock mpg. Again, that has its own learning curve.
Also a big fan of stock injection. When you consider the age of the technology, it does quite well in any climate or altitude. You’d spend a lot of hours getting a standalone system to equal a stock Bosch system. _________________ ☮️ |
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flemcadiddlehopper Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2011 Posts: 2332 Location: Kelowna, BC. Canada.
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Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2024 11:17 am Post subject: Re: Dual Carb Install on 2.3 GoWesty Motor |
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MarkWard wrote: |
I appreciate the taller filters, but wonder if caps to a remote filter and ambient temp inlet wouldn’t be a better long term solution? There is quite a bit of heat in that area. Especially after a day of highway driving. |
I originally thought of that and was trying to figure out where to put the filters. Utilizing the rear ai vents on the Vanagon seemed to make sense
, until you try and find a spot for a filter that is equal to the tall filters. 6"x20". And also considering the ease of servicing these filters, in comparison to a filter jammed up inside the upper rear quarters.
I see your reasoning for wanting cooler air for the engine to breath. I believe the design of the stock air vents on the vanagon pull a decent amount of fresh air directed adjacent to the carbs. Where did the stock intake draw air from?
I have installed and tuned the CB Performance Gen4 for a customer on a '74 Ghia. It is a well built system that breathes through dual 48mm throttle bodies. It has a easy laptop tune and can be tuned remotely by CB if troubles arise. For me that would be the ultimate FI system. But for now I have fixed the issues I have with the IDF44s. And, for me, the performance of a stock 2.1 with 4 into 1 exhaust, dual idf44s, a pointless distributor and all pulling through a 5 speed is all I need.
Gordo. _________________ Everybody Dies....Some Never Live.
Retrograde Garage. Vintage Aircooled, and others. |
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RoryGirl Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2016 Posts: 768 Location: WestWorld Nanaimo BC
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Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2024 12:00 pm Post subject: Re: Dual Carb Install on 2.3 GoWesty Motor |
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flemcadiddlehopper wrote: |
You, being from Nanaimo,B.C., must have done that trip? 170km return trip on the dustiest washboard on the planet. With huge tandem dump trucks passing you limiting your visibility to about your defroster vents. If you haven't done it, add it to your list...it is a must.
Gordo. |
Not yet...I'm a newer Islander. Not sure how my air-ride and pending turret raise will handle that, but I'll make the drive one day. |
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flemcadiddlehopper Samba Member
Joined: December 05, 2011 Posts: 2332 Location: Kelowna, BC. Canada.
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Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2024 7:27 pm Post subject: Re: Dual Carb Install on 2.3 GoWesty Motor |
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.[/quote]
Not yet...I'm a newer Islander. Not sure how my air-ride and pending turret raise will handle that, but I'll make the drive one day.[/quote]
You could get in there in a honda accord. No ground clearance needed, just lots of wash-board. Air down you tires to 20lbs and it's all smooth as gravy. Just really dusty. It really is a bucket list place to go. Dual carbs not needed either.
Gordo. _________________ Everybody Dies....Some Never Live.
Retrograde Garage. Vintage Aircooled, and others. |
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