Wideband Results

[webebuggin]

Well, it's lean with the 50's, and the Mallory has Vac. Advance... It seems to come on in the upper rpms... And it's rich with the 55's..I recall ericallred stating" shoot for 12"s@ WOT, and let it go wherever it wants elsewhere" I thought I would give 52.5's a shot....

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what is "lean"?
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[webebuggin]

Sorry, I meant "RICH" with 55's..... So, with a 50 idle,at 850 rpm, I get 12.7 AFR...At 1000 rpm 12.8/13.3. 2000 rpm 14.6/15.8 2500 rpm, 13.6. 3000 rpm, 13.9/14.1 3500 rpm 13.3 4000 rpm 13.6,then when it drops back down to idle...12.8-11.5 in the 2000-3000 rpm range, it's "snappy/poppy" in the exhaust..14.5-14.7... timing at 8 degrees, it seem to pop a little bit above 3000.... it idles well at 850,with no pop, a little banging in the exhaust. smells a bit rich. LBI is touchy, but set 1/2 turn above where it smooths out... where to next??? (50 idle, 200 air 140 main f-11 currently)...

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When you tell us A/F, you must tell us the throttle position. Telling us the RPMs is of no use by itself.
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[stan_tichomirov]

This is fun! Love it when the car responds to changes, it's a good feeling.

I'm on my 4th tank of E85. 1835, 8.7:1 CR, Web 163 with 1.1:1 rockers, single springs, 1 1/2" merged header, 40IDFs with 30mm vents, sea level.

I was trying to dial in F11 tubes. I have 55 idles, 160 mains. I have the wideband set to Lambda. Best I was able to dial in the F11s was by soldering up 2 of the top holes and using 200 airs. Idle was around .8, freeway 60MPH+ cruising was at 1.1-1.2, WOT was around 1. On transition it still swung lean to 1.3 and hiccuped a bit, but I added some timing and that made it better, though WOT was still a bit lean.

Per John's recommendation, I used F2 tubes. I have not done any modifications to them so far -- off the shelf F2s with 55 idles, 160 mains and 200 airs.

Idle is around .75-.8 -- I can turn in the mixture screws in a bit to lean it out if needed, but it idles well. Part throttle is at 1.1 to 1.15 -- perfect. Transition finally WORKS!, it gets on the mains quickly and goes! WOT starts out at .85, then gets as rich as .80 at the very top where it hits the rev limiter. Rev limiter is set at 5,500 and the car gets there quick! I'm running a stinger right now and the car feels goood

Will continue tinkering, but the car responds. E85 is freaking awesome, stuff just won't ping. Here is my current timing map, needs to be cleaned up a bit but works.

Huge thanks to John as always.

Stan
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Try a 210 air OR a 155 main. Trying to prevent the richening as RPMs rise.
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[stan_tichomirov]

I'll try both but would prefer to use a leaner main if possible. It's pretty cool to see this stuff working and doing what you are trying to make it do.

I think I'm reaching the limits of my single HD springs. I could not go get it to rev this high on 91 octane, our premium SUCKS.

Stan
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leaner main jet is the better solution.
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[webebuggin]

Ok, so... with a 50 idle jet, LBI: mixtures at 1 turn out , 12.3/14.0 at idle 1/4 throttle 21.8.. 1/2 throttle 14.6 ..snappy/ .Poppy out of exhaust in both 1/4 and 1/2 throttle ...above 1/2 throttle 13.4 at 3000 rpm above 1/2 throttle 20.4 above that 14.2-15.0... at cruise (3000rpm in 3rd) light throttle it's 12.5/13.0....Spark plugs are grey/dry( I know ,reading plugs is old science and not worthy with todays fuel) this with 200 air on f-11... light banging/popping in exhaust at idle...

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you need to list stuff individually, it's tough to read and decipher what you are trying to say (at least for me). It's also tough to read past messages to try to figure out what your combo is, since they are often changed.

Don't be lazy, just list it each time you post, if you have a jetting question.
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[modok]

[cmaxcliff]

John, wouldn't webebuggin be better off to remove the main jet stacks until he gets the idles right? It seems like he is jumping into the mains at times.

Have the accel pumps been backed off? It also seems like webebuggin might be moving the throttle while taking readings instead of holding steady.

[Casting Timmy]

Here is Webebuggin's motor set up:

2110 FK7 with Steve’s 1 heads, Mallory w/vacuum set to 8 idle and 28 total. NGK7EA plugs gapped at .040 fired thru a MSD 6A

Webebuggin, I could be wrong but I would suggest reporting back a wide open throttle pull

Idle-2500rpm xx.x gauge
2500-4500rpm xx.x gauge
4500- ? xx.x gauge

Cruise at 20% throttle xx.x gauge
Cruise at 30% throttle xx.x gauge

Idle jet xx
Main jet xx
Air jet xx
Tube F-xx

You have a vacuum advance distributor so you will be able to do a lean cruise.

[Casting Timmy]

John posted this back on page 4:

I disagree. You do NOT want the highest RPM you can achieve at "idle". While this may be the most "efficient" idle setting, it's very unstable and will not hold RPMs steady, ESPECIALLY as engine temps change.

Everyone I've ever seen has their carbs adjusted via the wrong method. They MAY be adjusted right, but via the wrong method (they got lucky). To get the proper idle, AND to make sure that the carb is setup so IT WORKS LIKE IT WAS DESIGNED TO, do this.

For reference, LBI (Lean Best Idle). How I do it is to back out the idle mixture screw a bit, then turn it in until you hear the engine miss on that cylinder. Now back it out until it picks up. Back out to fastest idle, find the sweet spot. Once you do, go out another flat (1/2 turn). Repeat for the other 3 cylinders. This is how to set idle mixture. It's actually 1/2 turn richer than lean best idle, but my setting (1/2 turn richer than LBI) is more stable than actual LBI under real usage conditions (where temps will change from what it is when you adjusted it).

Also, only do your adjusting on a warm (HOT) engine. That's how you drive it, so don't do the setup when it's not warmed up.

So do to your engine, set idle timing to around 7-8 BTDC. Get idle speed around 800. Sync the carbs. Set idle mixture. This is the initial setup ONLY.

Now, you must get the throttle plates in their proper position. If you have vacuum advance, put a gauge on the vac advance port, or if you do not have one put a hose on and "listen to it". Turn the idle speed screw in until you get a vacuum reading (or a sucking sound on the hose). Now back it out until it disappears (no vacuum). Now match the other carb to that one. Now NEVER EVER TOUCH THE IDLE SPEED SCREWS!!! Any change in idle RPM you make now will be via the air bypass screws or ignition timing.

Make sure both barrels on the same carb flow the same. If they don't, you may have a bent throttle shaft. Go to carb Doctor ACE or Harney.

Adjust to LBI.

So what is your idle speed? If it's too high, you need to remove idle timing, then reset the idle mixture again

If it's too low, you have a couple options. If your idle timing is close to 7-8BTDC, the first thing I'd try is to open the idle air bypasses. Do both the same so both barrels flow the same. You only get so much adjustment on the air bypass screws. If that doesn't do it, you have to add idle timing which will bump up the idle speed. Add timing until you are at your desired RPM. I do NOT recommend timing over 12 degrees at idle, if you need this much you likely have something wrong somewhere. If you need more than 12 degrees at idle, something is wrong. The exception is centermount carbs; those MAY need more air to get the idle speed up. Do that by backing down on the timing, then open the air bypasses or drill the plates a little at a time (and reset idle mixture) until you are at the desired idle speed.

Be aware that optimum idle timing has NOTHING to do with optimum full advance. So if you are using a non adjustable distributor you will have a problem, since idle timing dictates your full advance! If you want 28 total, and adjust your idle from 12 to 8, your distributor advance must be changed so you adhere to both conditions. If you have a Mallory it's a 5 minute job, it's trial and error if you have a Bosch or GOOD LUCK if you have a Chinese 009 or something.

This will allow the carburetors to work properly. If you have a centermount carb, you MAY have to drill the throttle plates, but only do this after you have done the basic setup first. It's critically important to have the throttle plates just below the progression holes at idle!!!!!! I can't stress this enough. Obviously the carb setup WILL be different at different elevations, and with different engines. And in fact, idle speed WILL be affected by the oil you are using, 50W is going to slow the idle down more than 0-20 for example.

Note that any time you make an idle jet, idle speed, or ignition timing change, you have to go back and reset the idle mixture!!!

John
Aircooled.Net Inc.

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Of course. But in today's "gotta have it now" society, most folks are lazy. "I ain't reading all that!"

They'd rather have someone else do it and not learn anything.

[webebuggin]

I have to agree with john, i just got wrapped up in how cool it is to "get it right" and left out vital info.... Casting Timmy had the spec right on my Combo.., only change made so far was dropping idle jets from 55 to 50 and getting LBI correct, and changing timing from 12/16, to 8/28 .., I understand what i'm trying to do, it's a touchy thing... John is a wealth of info, and given all info, you get great results, Hence we tend to get ahead of ourselves...I will try the "main stacks out" at report back,also, throttle position whilst driving is kinda hard to judge, but will do the best we can....

[stan_tichomirov]

In my car, it seems the idle mixture has a pretty narrow range to be close, I can be either rich or lean with 50 idles and it doesn't take much to go from one to the other. If you KNOW you are rich with 55 keep tweaking the 50s, alter timing if you need to. Being able to add/remove a couple of degrees in certain spots has been very helpful to me.

You could also buy 52 idles if the car refuses to run with 50s. But that's gotten me a few time now -- I tweak with jets, go to larger idles, tweak more then end up going back to smaller idles. You should see how good I've gotten at removing/re-installing my carbs.

Stan
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Jansen Enterprise
My 1835cc build
My budget 2276 build

[VDub Rising]

Hey guys, I'm getting ready to buy the proper equipment needed to tune my duel carbed 1776 and was wondering if there is a how to or quick reference guide on properly setting the advance on the SVDA dizzy from aircooled.net? I also have this style exhaust and was wondering where I would put the AFR reader or the best place to. I'm running heater boxes.

[webebuggin]

2110, 44 idf's 50 idle, 140 main on 200 e-tube , 200 air corr. LBI set. 8/28 on the Mallory . with the main stacks out, it goes 14.9-15.4 at light cruise @ 1/4 throttle, upped timing to 10 at idle, no change... it idles strong ,but going slowly up, it is snappy/poppy... Go 52.5 idles and reset LBI and report back??? By the way, FWIW my plugs have gone from black to light grey....

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when you change the ignition timing you must re-set the idle mixture.

Normally 44s require 55 idles.
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It's just advice, do whatever you want with it!

Please do NOT send me Private Messages through the Samba PM System (I will not see them). Send me an e-mail to john at aircooled dot net

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