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Drive by Wire - What do you think?
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jmartin7
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:46 pm    Post subject: Drive by Wire - What do you think? Reply with quote

I`ve been looking at newer cars, mainly new beetles, and they for the most part are equipped with drive by wire. I`ve never driven or owned a car with drive by wire and I don`t know what to expect. Do dbw cars drive like regular cars and are they as safe?
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doc1369
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use to own a Toyota matrix that used DBW. You wouldn't know it was there unless you floored it in neutral or tried to order a supercharger, I tried.

Not being able to order a supercharger was a Toyota thing not a DBW thing by the way.
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LeviMan2001
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drive by wire is used usually to police the driver with traction control and other "driving aids". My '06 Subaru Legacy is a stick and has no traction control, so it just behaves like a normal throttle. The engine does feel a bit sluggish but that could just be the motor rather than the throttle.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You ever had the blue screen on your PC? think about your car doing that at 60mph Wink the Toyota recalls ring A bell? no brakes, gas pedal stuck,, No way in hell do I want A computer driving my car for me!!
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fred69vert
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a Nissan Titan that is DBW. Don't notice any difference.

As to the New Beetle. Bought one in 2008, what a lemon. In the less than two years we had it, it went in SEVEN TIMES for warranty repair. From little things like the tiptronic shift switch failing or the door lock switches FALLING OFF to a failed A/C compressor at FOUR MONTHS!!! what a Mexican built POS!!! Only car I've ever had in 35 years that was worse was a 74 Triumph Spitfire.

Traded it in for a 2010 Ford Focus. No problems with that car.
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skills@eurocarsplus
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 5:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vw has been using DBW since the upper 90's. The vw system is bullet proof. Volvo however has had huge issues. I have a 01 Audi A4 turbo quattro and love it. No issues at all even pushing 20 psi of boost through it. As mentioned the advantage with it is traction control. If the wheels slip it will only allow a little throttle, that is unless you hit the ASR buton and deactivate the traction system. I feel the throttle is just as crisp as a manual throttle body. Same thing with my wifes 03 jetta. No issues
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jmartin7
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vw_hank wrote:
You ever had the blue screen on your PC? think about your car doing that at 60mph Wink the Toyota recalls ring A bell? no brakes, gas pedal stuck,, No way in hell do I want A computer driving my car for me!!


Thats kind of what I was thinking. Shocked But I could be wrong. I `ve done more reading and found that the earlier nbs are drive by cable. (2001ish and below,I think the engine code was AEG.)
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TheRustySuper
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not really an issue. All cars made today (and indeed for the past several years) have DBW and the only time it was ever a danger was with Toyota...and that was a fluke and if I remember correctly it wasn't the fault of the DBW system anyway, but other factors. (I could be wrong here so correct me if I am.) Our '01 Volvo V70 did have a throttle body issue, but when it started going out it wasn't like the throttle was sticking wide open, it really felt more like a transmission problem and was fixed under warranty. My '09 GTI, 6 speed has a DBW throttle and it took a bit of getting used to for me 'cos I was a new driver when I started driving it, and was only used to driving my Beetle previously. But you really don't notice it. I track the GTI and even then I can't complain about it.
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jmartin7
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fred69vert wrote:
I have a Nissan Titan that is DBW. Don't notice any difference.

As to the New Beetle. Bought one in 2008, what a lemon. In the less than two years we had it, it went in SEVEN TIMES for warranty repair. From little things like the tiptronic shift switch failing or the door lock switches FALLING OFF to a failed A/C compressor at FOUR MONTHS!!! what a Mexican built POS!!! Only car I've ever had in 35 years that was worse was a 74 Triumph Spitfire.

Traded it in for a 2010 Ford Focus. No problems with that car.


The ones I`m looking at are the older manual transmission 2.slow versions.(I`m never owning another automatic if I can help it.) Hopefully most, if not all, the bugs have been worked out by now.

Thats good to here about the focus, my experience was different. My ex had a 2005 that threw a rod as soon as it rolled over to 100k, and we had a 2008 rental that had horrible road handling, the steering had a weird inconsistent looseness to it that was very hard to get used to and it only had 13k miles on it.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My 08 Tacoma and wife's 07 Outback are both DBW. Both are irritating as fuck. My truck being a 5sp is a little more so. You would think that you wouldn't notice the fraction of a second that it takes to respond, but when you're sitting on a hill and need to tach up before you release the clutch, it sucks. My wife's Suby is an auto and the only weird thing is that it takes off like a bat out of hell at about 2/3 throttle, but you stick it to the floor and it thinks for a second, "did this fool really mean to stab the throttle or did his foot slip?". Eventually it takes off at full throttle, but it seriously takes a second or two.

And shifting my truck from 4th to 5th on the freeway is a little weird...it revs up to about 2500 and stays there as long as you have your foot on the clutch and the truck is in motion.
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nerfer
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheRustySuper wrote:
Not really an issue. All cars made today (and indeed for the past several years) have DBW and the only time it was ever a danger was with Toyota...and that was a fluke and if I remember correctly it wasn't the fault of the DBW system anyway, but other factors. (I could be wrong here so correct me if I am.)


No, you're right about Toyota. Not sure if you're right about "all cars today have DBW".

There were a couple highly publicized cases of apparent "unintended acceleration" with Toyota, the first one with an off-duty cop who rented a Lexus that had been previously reported as having a floor mat that entrapped the brake pedal. The second publicized case was a person who eventually it was shown intentionally overheated the brakes (brake hard, accelerate, brake hard, accelerate, until it failed, then sue Toyota). The actual recall that Toyota eventually issued involved floor mats and the design of the brake pedal, not the DBW.

That said, some of the early Prius had a problem with traction control kicking in too soon and people getting stuck on ice instead of the wheels having some spin and eventually getting out of it. That wasn't a danger of causing accidents, more of an issue of not getting started on an icy uphill when the light changed. I think that was resolved in 2006, when I bought my Prius, I haven't had any problems in the 5 years I've been driving the car, and I haven't had any ECU's reprogrammed.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If no one told you it was DBW, you wouldn't know.
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Lettuce
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the "Lag" is actually programmed in to improve fuel mileage.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lettuce wrote:
the "Lag" is actually programmed in to improve fuel mileage.

My '05 Frontier has that weird lag. It's actually less annoying than the sticky linkage on an '89 Chevy truck I used to drive.
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Eaallred
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My wifes old 03 Accord with six speed manual was DBW. I had no idea it was until I was poking around under the hood one day. It was as instant as my foot could move it, felt totally normal to me.
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Lettuce
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

there is a product that interes with the pedal curves so it moves the throttle farther compared to pedal movement than stock, so it "feels faster"

or just say its turbo lag
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jmartin7
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Other than the Toyota thing, has anyone ever heard about major dbw failure? Also how do you think the aftermarket will support this system when VW moves on to somthing else?
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69 Jim
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My 69 is drive by wire.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 6:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought I heard somewhere that all the Toyota stuff was found not to be the fault of any electronics, most were found to be driver error. Was just a case of everyone trying to jump on the bandwagon to pay for thier accident type of thing. Which makes sense, the only recall they did was for floor mats to be replaced. If there was a DBW issue, there would have been a massive recall, i'm sure someone here would have heard about it.
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69 Jim
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eaallred wrote:
the only recall they did was for floor mats to be replaced.


They don't replace them if you have already updated them to the all season version. The dealership does do a "pedal reshaping procedure" recall which takes the about 45 minutes for the tech to complete.
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