Tire wheel and suspension thread

[rustfree1967bug]

I am curious what the best size of rear tire is for a lowered Irs ghia. I have a '69 and my goal is to get the rear down atleast 4"lower than stock. Was wondering if the stock 165/80 tires would clear and if not what is a size thst is a guranteed fit?
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'70 ghia
'69 ghia
'65 singlecab
'66 sunroof beetle
'74 bus
'67 so-42


IDA's...well... they talk dirty -MURZI

[bhaltom]

Tire Size---- Height-- Width
1- 165/45x15-- 20.8-- 6.5
2- 165/50x15-- 21.5-- 6.5
3- 155/60x15-- 22.3-- 6.1
4- 145/65x15-- 22.4-- 5.7
5- 175/55x15-- 22.6-- 6.9
6- 195/50x15-- 22.7-- 7.7
7- 135R15----- 23.5-- 5.3
8- 185/60x15-- 23.7-- 7.3
9- 145R15----- 24.1-- 5.7
10- 195/60x15- 24.2-- 7.7
11- 185/65x15- 24.5-- 7.3
12- 205/60x15- 24.7 -- 8.0
13- 155R15---- 24.8-- 6.1
14- 195/65x15- 25.0-- 7.7
15- 165R15---- 25.4 -- 6.5
16- 205/65x15- 25.5-- 8.0
17- 195/70x15- 25.7-- 7.7
18- 215/65x15- 26.0-- 8.5
19- 205/70x15- 26.3-- 8.0

I copy this from another site, feel free to modify change or whatever, The chart has really helped me, hope it helps others
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1966 Karmann Ghia

[rustfree1967bug]

Think I may go with the 155r15 as it is slightly smaller and narrower than the 165r15. Hopefully it will give me enough room
_________________
'70 ghia
'69 ghia
'65 singlecab
'66 sunroof beetle
'74 bus
'67 so-42


IDA's...well... they talk dirty -MURZI

[fes]

Ok Fellas, here's the deal..I've read over this sticky a few times and have found a couple similar issues/setups
My car is sitting on non adjustable beam with 2.5 drop spindles..The PO started this project and never finished, but he decided to drop it, buy these Sprinstars,(which I love) and buy brand new tires..Hankook 185/60/15..
So on her maiden voyage a couple of months ago, This happened:

OUCH! I know..
Good news is I managed to repair it,and took it upon myself to roll the fenders..which worked fairly well..

The present wheels LOOK like they clear ok,but I had a couple of buddies hop in the car and turn the wheels..With the added weight, the tires pretty much touch the fender lips..so no good..
Keep in mind the Tank is not in yet and our roads in this neck of the woods are complete garbage..so a bad bump on a turn= trashed fenders..
If it were up to me, The car would have been left at stock height, Which may be an option yet..
So..these are my options as I see it:
Go back to stock height..Still not certain that these tires would work..

Change to adjustable beam/narrow...Not in the $$ cards right now and I'm not a huge fan of Narrowed look..+ still not certain that these tire will work.

Go with a smaller tire up front..I'd like to stay with Hankook, but 175 is the smallest tire I can find locally..I can get Continental 145/65/15 for a decent price..I can't seem to find anything 135s around here, and that might be too extreme anyways, also, Smart car tires have been suggested as well..Ill be staying with the 185s on the rear as I have short axles..whether or not I'll switch brands so they match is yet to be determined..
What would you guys do in this current setup? I'd like to resolve this soon as spring is here and the car is almost finished and I do not want to drive it again until I'm confident that I will have no fender damage regardless of turning/weight/bad roads..
I should mention as well that I'd sooner not have the car any lower..a hair maybe, but I do not want the beam sitting 3' off the ground or anything..
Look forward to your input before I go shopping
-Thanks
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'68 Campmobile-Pedro
'15 Golf-Stella Blau
'56 Oval-The Turd (for now)

[Brassneck]

Hmm...A narrowed beam would definitely help and fix the concern. And going back to stock would surely fix it as well....but it doesn't look like it's too bad from the pic after you rolled the fenders. (Maybe it's the angle?)

Before I did anything major, I'd drive it around a bit carefully and see if the rolled fenders fixed the issue...

Some thoughts:
Those rims have a decent offset (I have them too). The tire you have on there is almost 2" smaller diameter than stock...you could go smaller I suppose?

Personally, I've found that there's not really a whole lot of weight added with a full tank of gas (61lbs for about 10gal. of gas), so if it takes a couple of guys to push down to get to rubbing...I think you're probably safe now that you've rolled the fenders. With two people sitting in the ghia, the weight is distributed evenly...vs. the direct weight over the front (As I assume you did with your testing)...You'll likely not have that kind of weight when driving...

Perhaps a stiffer suspension up front could help? It would be the easiest short/term fix, but that will make for a rough ride if your roads are that bad.

I'm sure someone else has better ideas.

Good luck.

[sactojesse]

[fes]

Thanks for the replies so far..
I cant afford a new beam right now, narrowed or not..I know there are threads on turning a stock beam into an adjustable one..I may consider this, but I want to get the season out of the car before I may tackle that next winter..
I don't feel that this is safe not to damage right now, regardless of me rolling the fender..I had two avererage sized men sitting in the seats and turning the wheels..at one point in the turn, I don't think I would be able to fit a piece of paper between the fender and tire..this in a perfectly level concrete floor..Nothing like the badly uneven asphalt and raised manhole/potholes we have here..one bad turn combined with bump, say goodbye to the beautiful German hand-welded fender..
I just shopped around a bit..
Mercedes do not stock a smartcar tire smaller that 165..and they are not sure they can even get it because those were on the front of older models apparently..
I can get 2 continental Eco-pro (145/65/15) for about $100 CAD right now..
That's it..nothing else remotely close locally..
I'm pretty sure someone out there is running this combo on their Ghia..I'd like to go even bigger than 145 if I can..but I'm not going to keep throwing money at tires until I find the right one as I'm sure you guys can understand
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'68 Campmobile-Pedro
'15 Golf-Stella Blau
'56 Oval-The Turd (for now)

[sactojesse]

[c21darrel]

I think I would base my decision on long term goal. Stock? lowered? narrowed? I agree that the drop spindles are the cause. 145/65/15 (smartcar) Continentals is what i have on mine, good tire. It may solve the rub as they are pretty small. Speedo is going to be off too. Stock spindles are usually pretty inexpensive at swaps or the classifieds as so many swap to lowered. More work to swap out spindles than tires .
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GhiaBuild
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=481184
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Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

[fes]

I really have to pick my battles here, long term goals are just that, I've been after one of these for almost 20 years so I cant see myself parting with it anytime soon..
This was a working project car that i inheireted some of his design tastes and work that I had to go over to correct..Like I stated earlier, I would not have personally lowered this car, Low cars have no business on my shitty roads..
I've done a lot of work and spent a pile of dough since last July when I managed to convince my better half to bring this beauty into our lives..
So, right now I'm very close to getting her on the road..and I'd really like to get one solid SAFE short season out of her before I start tearing back into the suspension.
Brassneck mentioned a stiffer ride up front, I do have my eyes on a set of KYB gas adjusts to replace the Monroes that are in there now, But I'm not sure this would solve my problem..New shocks would not really change my ride height/travel..maybe just to help it return to unladen height better..I don't really know..
I'm not really in a solid position to start throwing $$ at experiments at this time, However, $200 in new rubber up front to replace the tires that I'm pretty certain that are way too big for this application is where I'm thinking might be a good start..
I just really don't want a dinky tire..
So I guess what I'm saying is..please show me your setups with relatively the same as mine..I've read this thread over a couple of times and there seems to be a few people running 145s right up to 165-175..But there is the people saying "very little rubbing" I need "no rubbing" or "no chance of rubbing"
PS, I really wish I had of snapped a pic of when my two buddies were in the car..wasn't thinking, I guess you all will just have to take my word for it
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'68 Campmobile-Pedro
'15 Golf-Stella Blau
'56 Oval-The Turd (for now)

[sactojesse]

[fes]

I may very well go this route in the future, I may convert my existing beam to adjustable as it's in perfect shape and the cost of getting one shipped here would cost a fortune..
In the meantime, what do you guys think? should I pull the trigger on the Conti-145s? I would consider 155s as well if I knew no rubbing issues.
_________________
'68 Campmobile-Pedro
'15 Golf-Stella Blau
'56 Oval-The Turd (for now)

[kiwighia68]

Interesting discussion about Fes' problems above. I had similar problems and am no closer to an acceptable solution. Here's the story:

1. As a start, I had 185/60/R15 Roadstones front and rear on stock 5.5" steel rims. No problems except (a) the speedo overreads by about 8% and (b) the engine revs are 8% higher at 100kph than it should with stock 165R15 tyres. I then made some changes.
2. I first had 2.5" dropped spindles installed just before a photo shoot and the fenders on both sides were damaged exactly as Fes' pic shows.
3. I then had adjusters fitted to the beam and the front was raised about 1". No rubbing now, but ... the speedo still overreads and the revs are still too high. (See 1. above.)
4. I'm thinking of replacing the 185/60/R15 tyres all round with 165/R15 on the front and 195/70/R15 at the back. The 165/R15 has a tyre height of 25.4" and the 195/70/R15 a height of 25.7", according to a post here last week. That should solve my speedo reading and high revving issues.

I have 2 questions: A Assuming that the 165s on the front cause some rubbing, will I be able to raise the front by, say, .5", by means of the adjustable beam I have now? I suppose what I'm asking is whether small incremental adjustments like that can be made. B Will 195/70/R15s on the back rub on the INSIDE? I see enough space on the outside for a wider and taller tyre to fit without rubbing on the fenders.

Thanks.
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Festina lente - hasten slowly
1968 Ghia named Emiko
Resto completed Dec 2015

[fes]

So If I'm understanding you're saying Kiwi, You have a 2.5" drop spindles now on the adjustable beam with 185s? and no rubbing?
Whats the distance off the ground to the bottom of your beam now?
I have a shitload of room in the rear with 185's but I did the short axle swap..
Thanks for chiming in
-Matt
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'68 Campmobile-Pedro
'15 Golf-Stella Blau
'56 Oval-The Turd (for now)

[kiwighia68]

[fes]

Well that is quite interesting because as sits with my setup, I have 7" from the concrete floor to the bottom of my beam..dead center of the beam under the nut..
How in the hell could I be sitting 1 1/2" higher then you with the same 185 tires and be in danger of rubbing?
Maybe I'm missing something here?
_________________
'68 Campmobile-Pedro
'15 Golf-Stella Blau
'56 Oval-The Turd (for now)

[kiwighia68]

[fes]

Nope.. no narrowed beam here, unless I'm being foolish and not realizing it
_________________
'68 Campmobile-Pedro
'15 Golf-Stella Blau
'56 Oval-The Turd (for now)

[kiwighia68]

[fes]

According to the sales info on the sprintstar wheels, they are 5" wide with 3.5" backspace
_________________
'68 Campmobile-Pedro
'15 Golf-Stella Blau
'56 Oval-The Turd (for now)