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Question about dual carbs for a porsche pancake engine??
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vwTattoo
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 4:42 am    Post subject: Question about dual carbs for a porsche pancake engine?? Reply with quote

hello there,
i have a 72 riviera that i am getting work done on right now(body work)...and i figure i might as well go through the whole rig and get everything in top shape...

i have one of those porsche pancake engines in it at the moment, and the dual carbs are really on their last legs and have been giving me trouble... i went to my local vw mechanic and he said i should switch to the single carb kit because it would be a hassle to find these carbs or rebuild em...
what do you guys think i should do?
i see there are rebuild kit around and i figure if im gonna drop 500 for a single barb kit i might as well just buy a new engine for 1000 more

as you can tell i dont know much about mechanics so im a bit confused
any help would be greatly appreciated
thanx alot
joey
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BIGTSV
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have not heard many good things about putting a single carb on a Type 4 motors, The dual carbs are not that bad if you fiddle with them and get them going. I would rebuild them and keep them on your motor. You can rebuild the carbs in less than 45 minutes so its really not hard to do.


What other issues does your motor have? Many motors can be brought back to life with a good tune up and Valve adjustment.

Where are you located? Maybe someone from the site can help out
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BIGTSV
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just saw your location,
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vwTattoo
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i think my engine is a porsche 914, i figured i could just rebuild em, i think he wanted to do the conversion maybe to make it easier to do(i dunno?)...
i did just have a valve adjustment last year its most just sputtering and sometime quitting out on me---seems like its trying hard for the gas

i also think i need to put ion a hot start relay as well because after the van has been running for awhile and i go to start it again i have to bang on the starter to get it stared again...and because it stalls out on me after driving a bit i end up with 2 problems at a green light hehe

ill get some info on what type of carbs i have and get it posted up here
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atmellovw
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 5:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What do you mean when you say you say your dual carbs are on their last legs? What is the problem exactly? When I first bought my bus, I had a mechanic tell me to switch to a single carb because one of my carbs was leaking gas. I discovered on my own that the leak was just a loose fuel hose that took me ten minutes to fix. From this point on I decided I would only trust the advice of the folks on this website and my Bentley manual. Look at it this way: If your mechanic can't fix/tune your dual carbs then what makes you think he can install and tune a single carb?
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Last edited by atmellovw on Tue Jun 24, 2008 5:45 am; edited 1 time in total
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BIGTSV
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From what I have read about the single carb is the motor does not produce enough manifold heat and the carb will ice up, being that you are in Canada, you may not have warm enough weather for the single carb to work.
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VDubTech
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vwTattoo wrote:
i think my engine is a porsche 914


Your engine is not a Porsche 914. In fact, the engine in the 914 isn't a Porsche engine, it's a VW Type 4 engine. Your Bus came originally with the same Type 4 engine, so generally some halfwit comes along and sells a Bus claiming it to have a "Porsche" engine in it when in reality it's a Bus motor. The 914 has a VW engine in it. Post a pic of the engine, I can tell you immediately if it came from a 914. Possible, but not likely.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can get those two carbs rebuilt, for by now they probably need throttle shaft bushings replaced, figure under $200. You can also get a set of Weber ICT's for under $500. A set of Kadrons for a little bit more. There is plenty of info on this site as to jet set up, and when ordering request what jets you want. All a single weber needs for chilly weather is a hot box air cleaner rig and your 72 has the hot air take off already provided coming in on the forward right side. There has been discussions about this several times. A new engine, especially a T4 will set you back a tad bit more than a $1,000, a awful lot to pay for a simple carb fix.
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Bleyseng
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

VDubTech wrote:
vwTattoo wrote:
i think my engine is a porsche 914


Your engine is not a Porsche 914. In fact, the engine in the 914 isn't a Porsche engine, it's a VW Type 4 engine. Your Bus came originally with the same Type 4 engine, so generally some halfwit comes along and sells a Bus claiming it to have a "Porsche" engine in it when in reality it's a Bus motor. The 914 has a VW engine in it. Post a pic of the engine, I can tell you immediately if it came from a 914. Possible, but not likely.


dude, unless its a 914 2.0L engine which was 100hp, special heads, specific parts etc. Unfortunatley, everyone like to describe the type 4 as a Porsche engine which in reality its out of a 411 thus the type 4 label.

Yes, the 72 buses came with a type 4 engine with dual solexes OEM. Rebuild the carbs if you have em and don't go to a single carb. Why, as stated they ice up as their isn't any way to heat up the long steel runners so the run like crap until the engine heat soaks em.
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Millennium Falcon
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:43 am    Post subject: Re: Question about dual carbs for a porsche pancake engine?? Reply with quote

vwTattoo wrote:
... i went to my local vw mechanic and he said i should switch to the single carb kit because it would be a hassle to find these carbs or rebuild em...

what do you guys think i should do?

i see there are rebuild kit around and i figure if im gonna drop 500 for a single barb kit i might as well just buy a new engine for 1000 more


Hey there vwTatto,

1. The first thing to do is to find a new mechanic or none at all. If he said to change over to a single carb he has not really done his homework on this issue. Search this site for yourself. Then listen to and trust what the true VW mechanics have to say.

2. Keep the stock carbs. You can buy a carb rebuild kit for under $50 and do it yourself in hours. It is very easy to do and a good place to start. And there are always stock dual carbs for sale in the classifieds if you need them.

3. Just keep searching this site for the info you need.

Cheers

p.s. buy a Bently book.
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Randy in Maine
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can probably rebuild these carbs yourself......

http://www.ratwell.com/technical/VacuumHosesCarb.html

http://www.ratwell.com/technical/DualCarbs.html

http://www.ratwell.com/technical/FuelHoses.html

Here is the best adjustment link I have seen fopr adjusting the factorydual solexes......

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=173175&highlight=dual+solex

Don't go back to that mechanic if he wants to install a weber progressive. Once properly set up, the dual solexes are a nice set up. They are however prone to vacuum leaks with all of the connections, hoses, and stuff.
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busman78
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is nothing wrong with the progressive, it can be jetted, it will work in chilly climates and if duals intimidate you then it is a viable set up.

Here is the write up for warm air to the progressive.

http://ad-libs-vw-technical.blogspot.com/2007/10/long-awaited-progressive-carb-warm-air.html
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Karl
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:19 am    Post subject: Re: Question about dual carbs for a porsche pancake engine?? Reply with quote

vwTattoo wrote:
hello there,
i have a 72 riviera that i am getting work done on right now(body work)...and i figure i might as well go through the whole rig and get everything in top shape...

i have one of those porsche pancake engines in it at the moment, and the dual carbs are really on their last legs and have been giving me trouble... i went to my local vw mechanic and he said i should switch to the single carb kit because it would be a hassle to find these carbs or rebuild em...
what do you guys think i should do?
i see there are rebuild kit around and i figure if im gonna drop 500 for a single barb kit i might as well just buy a new engine for 1000 more

as you can tell i dont know much about mechanics so im a bit confused
any help would be greatly appreciated
thanx alot
joey


If you do not want to tackle rebuilding them yourself..... PM kiefernet. He rebuilds them. At the top left of this page, you will see him listed as a Moderator. Click on his name.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A new engine will not solve a problem caused by a bad carb, and a rebuilt or new carb will not solve a problem caused by a bad engine. Don't throw money wildly at your problem. Ask questions and learn what is wrong with your rig. Check the state of your tune up carefully, are your cap and rotor good, are your points and spark plugs fairly new and gapped right? How old are your spark plug wires, are they stiff and light up like fireworks at night? You have bought an old car that is going to need a lot of love and attention.

Having run a progressive for twenty years I would recommend not going that route. 95% of the progressive installs out there are junk, including the one your mechanic will do unless he has lots and lots of T4 progressive experience and you have the dough to pay him for several days of labor. Mostly what you will get with progressives is a new set of problems with no easy solutions.
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vwTattoo
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok so heres a pic of my engine--any idea on the model?

i dont know much about vehicles so im still learning alot

also i attached pics of the carbs--do you guys recomend a certain dealer for the rebuild kits? and would it be a specific model?

thanx alot for all your help guys
joey

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SublimeBus
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

whats your engine code thats stamped in more than one place....

Looks to me like a standard type 4 Bus Engine....Not a Porsche motor

This will tell you what you have exactly.....Given parts wern't changed all around the engine and taken from a different year.

Type 1 Engines (found on Bus thru 1971)

D
Thru 8/65, 1200cc (34 hp),

O
1964, 1500cc (44 hp)

H
1965, 1500cc (44 hp)

HO, TO
1966-67, 1500cc (44 hp)

B5
1968, 1600cc single port, single relief

B
1969, 1600cc single port

B6
1970, 1600cc single port, dual relief, for Type 1 vehicles

AE
1971-72, 1600cc dual port, 8/70-7/71

AH
1973-1974, 1600cc dual port, for Type 1 vehicles

AJ, AS
1975-79 1600cc dual port, for Type 1 vehicles

F1, F2
1300-1600cc replacement engine case

AK
1967-74 1500-1600 replacement engine case

AB, AD, AM
1600cc replacement engine case






Type 4 Engines (found on 1972-1983 Bus & Vanagon)
CB 1972-73 Bus, 1.7 liter, Dual carb, manual trans
CD 1973 Bus 1.7 liter, Dual carb, auto trans
EB 1973 VW 412, 1973 Porsche 914, Calif emissions, L-Jetronic
EA 1972-74 VW 411 / 412, 1972-73 Porsche 914, 1.7 liter, D-Jetronic

EC
1974 VW 412, 1974 Porsche 914, 1.8 liter, Calif emissions, L-Jetronic

ED
1975 Bus, 1.8 liter, L-Jetronic fuel injected

AW
1973-75 Bus, 1.8 liter

GA
1973-74 Porsche 914 , 2.0 liter, D-Jetronic

GC
1975-76 Porsche 914 , 2.0 liter, D-Jetronic

GD
1976-77 Bus, 2.0 liter, L-Jetronic, Solid Lifter

GE
1978-79 Bus, 2.0 liter, L-Jetronic, Hydraulic Lifter (Same code was used on '78 w/oval exhaust ports and '79 with square exhaust ports.)

CV
1980-83 Vanagon, 2.0 liter, L-Jetronic, Hydraulic Lifter
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It looks like you have the stock 72 engine set up. 1700cid with dual Solex carbs. The carbs are no big deal to rebuild yourself is the throttle shafts are still tight. If the bores for the throttle shafts are worn to the point you can feel play in the shaft send them off to someone like Kiefernet to get them rebushed. Keeping the original Solex's is the cheapest and best solution.
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LeeE
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It looks like it is a 914 engine
Oil filler and dipstick on top
That's about the only difference between Bus and 914 engines that I know

EXCEPT the 914 2.0 as stated above
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VDubTech
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LeeE wrote:
It looks like it is a 914 engine
Oil filler and dipstick on top
That's about the only difference between Bus and 914 engines that I know

EXCEPT the 914 2.0 as stated above


Yup, definitely a 914 motor.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A good motor cleaning may be a good first step
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