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Pharquarx
Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2005
Posts: 249
Location: Southern California (Orange County)
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 Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 4:28 pm Post subject: Restoration of SWF Flasher Units |
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Need my SWF Flasher Unit (brown bakelite wierd looking thing) for my '56 bug restored. Drew C. tells me that John Henry and/or Jerry Constantine can do this for me. Spent about a half hour looking in the directory for these guys and figured it was quicker just to post this and let the mountain come to me.
Could you, would you, please?
Thanks,
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Charlie
Stock 67 Vert Under Restoration
1958 Lambretta TV175 Series 1
1957 Vespa Messerschmitt 150 GS
1951 Douglas Vespa Rod Type (First month of production!!!)
1970 Triumph T120R (Bonneville)
1950 Vincent Comet
1952 Moto Rumi Sport 125
1973 Ducati 750 Sport |
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Volumex
Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2007
Posts: 532
Location: Sarnia, ON
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Pharquarx
Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2005
Posts: 249
Location: Southern California (Orange County)
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 8:48 am Post subject: |
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Perfect, thanks so much.
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Charlie
Stock 67 Vert Under Restoration
1958 Lambretta TV175 Series 1
1957 Vespa Messerschmitt 150 GS
1951 Douglas Vespa Rod Type (First month of production!!!)
1970 Triumph T120R (Bonneville)
1950 Vincent Comet
1952 Moto Rumi Sport 125
1973 Ducati 750 Sport |
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johnshenry 
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2001
Posts: 9364
Location: Northwood, NH USA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:25 am Post subject: |
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Or you ou can e-mail me directly at [email protected].
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John Henry
'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab |
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j-dub
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Joined: November 09, 2003
Posts: 865
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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This is sort of a silly question but can these 6volt flashers run or made to run on 12volts? My car has been converted and I was just wanting to retain the factory correct look.
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1957 Oval rag
"POLICE STATION TOILET STOLEN ... Cops have nothing to go on." |
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johnshenry
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2001
Posts: 9364
Location: Northwood, NH USA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:02 am Post subject: |
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| j-dub wrote: |
| This is sort of a silly question but can these 6volt flashers run or made to run on 12volts? My car has been converted and I was just wanting to retain the factory correct look. |
The answer is probably not (but anything is possible).
Those flashers are complicated by the fact that the speedo indicator bulb is tied on the hot side and switched on the ground side (like the the gen and oil lights next to them), while the exterior bulbs are tied to ground and switched on the hot side. As such, the SWF flasher has two isolated sets of contacts inside, one for the ext. bulbs, and one for the speedo indicator.
Interestingly, its the speedo indicator contact that makes the clicking sound, as it is a magnetic coil driven contact, driven by the "inrush" current that the bulbs create when you first switch them on (and that is why it is important to always use the correct 18 or 20 watt bulbs in your turn signals).
The ext. bulbs are switched by a NiChrom wire contact set up, as the ext bulb current goes through the wire, it heats up, expands, opens the contact, current gone, cools, closes, repeat (with the cover off the flasher, if you blow on it while it is working, it stops!). The common failure of these flashers is that they flash the exterior bulbs, but not the speedo bulb. Since then it makes no noise, you drive around for MILES with your turn signal on since you hear and see nothing inside. BTDT....
At 12volts, you will halve the current and thus the wire will not heat up enough to release the contact. A bit counter intuitive, but since it is a current driven device, you will not "burn it out" on 12 volts, it will just not work.
Of course, being the vintage/wiring purist that I am, I'd say don't convert to 12 volt, but that is just my opinion. You will not be able to find a 12 volt dual contact flasher anyway.
However, if I HAD to do it, I would modify the speedo indicator bulb pod to remove the signal indicator bulb from the common "hot" copper bus, ground it, and switch it on the hot side like the ext bulbs. If you could so that, you could use a simple 2 prong 12 volt flasher....
.... but that would just not be right. 
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John Henry
'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab |
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j-dub
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Joined: November 09, 2003
Posts: 865
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the explanation. I am currently using a generic 12 volt flasher. I don't remember if it is a dual flasher or not but I do remember there was a trick to it when I installed it years ago. I have a new harness for the car and am wondering how to clean up all the wiring. Maybe I could gut one and insert the guts of a 12 volt unit.
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1957 Oval rag
"POLICE STATION TOILET STOLEN ... Cops have nothing to go on." |
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johnshenry
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Joined: September 21, 2001
Posts: 9364
Location: Northwood, NH USA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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I may have an old unrepairable one you could have to gut. I was thinking of that as an option too.
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John Henry
'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab |
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Bruce
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Joined: May 16, 2003
Posts: 17285
Location: Left coast, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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| johnshenry wrote: |
| ..At 12volts, you will halve the current .... |
If the resistance of the cct is fixed, doubling the voltage will double the current.
The power delivered will be 4 times.
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| overheard at the portland Swap Meet... wrote: |
| ..... a steering wheel made from a mastadon tusk..... |
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j-dub
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Joined: November 09, 2003
Posts: 865
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:23 am Post subject: |
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| Bruce wrote: |
If the resistance of the cct is fixed, doubling the voltage will double the current.
The power delivered will be 4 times. |
Incorrect.
V-Voltage, I-current, R-resistance
P=VI
Assuming a 20w bulb, 6 volt
20=6xI
I=3.34
Assuming a 20w bulb, 12 volt
20=12xI
I=1.67
Doubling the voltage will cut the current in half.
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1957 Oval rag
"POLICE STATION TOILET STOLEN ... Cops have nothing to go on." |
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j-dub
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Joined: November 09, 2003
Posts: 865
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:24 am Post subject: |
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| johnshenry wrote: |
| I may have an old unrepairable one you could have to gut. I was thinking of that as an option too. |
Let me look at the 12 volt flasher and see if it will even likely fit. I will get back to you.
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1957 Oval rag
"POLICE STATION TOILET STOLEN ... Cops have nothing to go on." |
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johnshenry
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Joined: September 21, 2001
Posts: 9364
Location: Northwood, NH USA
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:22 am Post subject: |
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| Bruce wrote: |
| johnshenry wrote: |
| ..At 12volts, you will halve the current .... |
If the resistance of the cct is fixed, doubling the voltage will double the current.
The power delivered will be 4 times. |
Nope.
j-dub is right, and has provided the math to support it. A+!
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John Henry
'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab |
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Bruce
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003
Posts: 17285
Location: Left coast, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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| johnshenry wrote: |
| Bruce wrote: |
| johnshenry wrote: |
| ..At 12volts, you will halve the current .... |
If the resistance of the cct is fixed, doubling the voltage will double the current.
The power delivered will be 4 times. |
Nope.
j-dub is right, and has provided the math to support it. A+! |
Notice how I stated "If the resistance of the cct is fixed"? That disclaimer makes my statement true. Changing the bulb is changing the resistance of the cct. My concern is what is happening inside the relay when you double the voltage.
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| overheard at the portland Swap Meet... wrote: |
| ..... a steering wheel made from a mastadon tusk..... |
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johnshenry
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2001
Posts: 9364
Location: Northwood, NH USA
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Bruce wrote: |
| johnshenry wrote: |
| Bruce wrote: |
| johnshenry wrote: |
| ..At 12volts, you will halve the current .... |
If the resistance of the cct is fixed, doubling the voltage will double the current.
The power delivered will be 4 times. |
Nope.
j-dub is right, and has provided the math to support it. A+! |
Notice how I stated "If the resistance of the cct is fixed"? That disclaimer makes my statement true. Changing the bulb is changing the resistance of the cct. My concern is what is happening inside the relay when you double the voltage. |
I see your point, but you are not doubling the current when using 12 volts and 12 volt bulbs.
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John Henry
'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab |
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sunroof
Samba Member
Joined: October 06, 2006
Posts: 1773
Location: Winnipeg
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| Posted: Sun May 03, 2009 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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I must have something hooked up wrong because my flasher clicks and works everything but the speedo bulb.
Don |
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sunroof
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Joined: October 06, 2006
Posts: 1773
Location: Winnipeg
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| Posted: Sun May 03, 2009 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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Ha! Got it, improperly grounded.
Don |
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Suboval
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Joined: September 15, 2003
Posts: 794
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| Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 6:47 am Post subject: |
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| j-dub wrote: |
| This is sort of a silly question but can these 6volt flashers run or made to run on 12volts? My car has been converted and I was just wanting to retain the factory correct look. |
Here is a SWF flasher relay I converted to 12 volts a few years ago.
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johnshenry
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2001
Posts: 9364
Location: Northwood, NH USA
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| Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 7:00 am Post subject: |
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| Suboval wrote: |
| j-dub wrote: |
| This is sort of a silly question but can these 6volt flashers run or made to run on 12volts? My car has been converted and I was just wanting to retain the factory correct look. |
Here is a SWF flasher relay I converted to 12 volts a few years ago.
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I'll never think of you again the same way Kurt. 
{actually, that is pretty cool, a double pole relay I presume? What did you use for the flasher circuit?}
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John Henry
'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab |
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Suboval
Samba Member
Joined: September 15, 2003
Posts: 794
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| Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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| johnshenry wrote: |
| Suboval wrote: |
| j-dub wrote: |
| This is sort of a silly question but can these 6volt flashers run or made to run on 12volts? My car has been converted and I was just wanting to retain the factory correct look. |
Here is a SWF flasher relay I converted to 12 volts a few years ago.
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I'll never think of you again the same way Kurt.
{actually, that is pretty cool, a double pole relay I presume? What did you use for the flasher circuit?} |
I used an EP29 for that setup.
Oh yeah, thanks for the sig material! 
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It all works on paper.
There's two things we learn from history:
1.) History repeats itself.
2.) We don't learn from history. |
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johnshenry
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2001
Posts: 9364
Location: Northwood, NH USA
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| Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Suboval wrote: |
| johnshenry wrote: |
| Suboval wrote: |
| j-dub wrote: |
| This is sort of a silly question but can these 6volt flashers run or made to run on 12volts? My car has been converted and I was just wanting to retain the factory correct look. |
Here is a SWF flasher relay I converted to 12 volts a few years ago.
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I'll never think of you again the same way Kurt.
{actually, that is pretty cool, a double pole relay I presume? What did you use for the flasher circuit?} |
I used an EP29 for that setup.
Oh yeah, thanks for the sig material! |
So was that relay in the EP29, and if so is it double pole? Or are you just using it as a "3 prong" flasher in a non stock car (that is is not having a ground switched speedo pod light and a pos switched exterior bulbs)
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John Henry
'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab |
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