Split Bus Seat Mounting Clarifications

pcalbar

Here’s a picky thread trying to figure out what is correct for style and when changes took place for the mounting of middle and rear seats in ’67 and older Buses. I am currently completing the restoration of my 1962 Deluxe that I have owned, driven, and enjoyed over the past 14 ½ years. I want to make sure to put it together as correctly and accurately as possible. Your answers specific to the ’62 model year will be appreciate as will your general comments of when changes took place. I am placing my comments and questions (with pictures) in hopes that those of you who either already know or have a very original Bus can check and see.

First question is about the mounting bolts. I have gone through my parts and found 5 different lengths of these bolts. These first two are what I believe to be correct for earlier Buses; I’m just not sure what “earlier” means as far as actual years. Their total length is 40mm (which I believe is for the rear seat), and 56mm (which I believe are for the middle seat. Your thoughts?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Here are two other lengths of mounting bolts that I’d like to clarify. I have a few 45mm, but only one of the 53mm. What can any of you tell me about these?

Now for the floor plates. I know the cast aluminum plates are older and the stamped steel plates are newer. What I don’t know is what years the two styles were used. What can you share?

Now comes the question of when and where wing nuts and regular nuts were used. What do you know about these?

Last but not least, the hold downs. I believe that the ones without the nipple are for earlier and the ones with the nipple are for very late split-screens and baywindow buses. What I would like to know is when this change took place and if I am correct in using the short ones for the rear seat and the taller ones for the middle seat?

First the ones without nipples:

And the ones with nipples:

Thanks in advance for your help!

Peter

zozo · Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 9:11 am Post subject:

Lemme' know what your needs are once you have it all figured out. I have a few of the t-bolts, of varying lengths, layin' around if you need them.

EverettB · Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 9:18 am Post subject:

This will get you started:

Long T-bolts = middle seat
Short T-bolts = rear seat

Seat clamps w/knub = 67 and later
No knub = 66 and earlier

Tall seat clamp = middle seat
Short seat clamp = rear seat

Aluminum seat plates = 64 and earlier
Metal seat plates = 65 and later
(Corrections welcome on that but aluminum were used at least until the late 1964 model year)

Wingnut = Kombi/Commercial Bus
Plain Nut = Non-Kombi

In late 1963 the rear seat bottom changed from 4 clamps to 2.
67 floors have more floor mounts. Did they use more clamps?
'67 cargo floor/middle seat mounts:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=270114

I'm not sure on the different lengths of similar "long" and "short" T-bolts.
This could be a Kombi (no floor mat) vs. Passenger Bus (floor mat) difference.
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House · Minutia Militia Joined: June 13, 2001 Posts: 1770

I think there is more information on seat mounting in the "Middle Seat" thread than anywhere else...

On a sililar note, here is the original seat mounting hardware out of
my '61 Standard. None of the aluminum middle seat plate numbers
match for some reason, and the rear seat clamps have VW logos on them,
while the middle clamps do not... Kind of odd. Maybe it was a mish mash
set from back in the day? The original owner says they came with the bus.

EverettB · Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 9:55 am Post subject:

I measured the T-bolts for my '63 and '64 Deluxes, what I could easily access.

'63/'64 middle seat t-bolts = 58 mm
'64 rear seat t-bolt = 42 mm

This sounds like a match to this photo

Also for reference, the clamps themselves, measured on the edge where T-bolt passes through:
'63/'64 middle seat clamp = 21 mm
'64 rear seat clamp = 15 mm
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EverettB · Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 9:57 am Post subject:

EverettB · Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:56 am Post subject:

Some Barndoor stuff for reference.

Barndoor T-bolts (seen in top center)

Barndoor rear seat back thumbscrews:

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Alan Brase · Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 6:01 am Post subject:

Has anybody ever gone looking in old German harwares supply catalogs?
In the US, there was a company called "Dorman" and they put their cabinets in auto supply stores and some hardware stores. I worked in such a store and they had the greatest supply of obscure bolts with specialized heads, lug bolts, clevises, pins of all sorts. I imagine one or more such companies existed in Germany.
Very likely the engineers that designed the type 2's just went to the manufacturers catalogs and specced the fasteners, rather than starting from scratch. My point is that there might be bins full of this stuff just waiting to be bought up if the right person found them. OR, the OE Manufacturer could just stamp out a thousand new ones from their old presses. (or forges, rollers and upsetters.)
Al
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EverettB · Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 8:37 am Post subject:

My guess would be that you can still buy most of the hardware straight off the shelf in Europe. Probably here too if you know where to find it. It's just metric stuff after all.

I know the Barndoor rear seat back wing nuts seen above are available new from mcmaster-carr and other places. Some info in: this thread.

The seat plates and seat hooks typically have VW part #s cast in so I am guessing they are VW-specific part.
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sventinker · Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 9:26 am Post subject:

I got these with a seat I just acquired. Every piece seems new?

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April 3rd 62 standard mgr/pw
374 North American equipment
Includes 6 popouts
025 Safety belts
195 Adjustable bench seat/backrest (until 1963)

busdaddy · Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 9:33 am Post subject:

Shitty repro garbage, you can use the bases and bolts and maybe the nuts, but toss the clamps as far away as you can.
Unless you like the idea of the seat flying around the bus in a crash.
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EverettB · Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 9:42 am Post subject:

The middle seat plates are super light weight too.
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sventinker · Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 8:06 pm Post subject:

so I should try to find some steel ones?
_________________
April 3rd 62 standard mgr/pw
374 North American equipment
Includes 6 popouts
025 Safety belts
195 Adjustable bench seat/backrest (until 1963)

busdaddy · Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 8:29 pm Post subject:

sventinker · Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 8:32 pm Post subject:

I realize now these are trash but if I were to hunt some down didn't 1962 have aluminum clamps?
_________________
April 3rd 62 standard mgr/pw
374 North American equipment
Includes 6 popouts
025 Safety belts
195 Adjustable bench seat/backrest (until 1963)

bushaus · Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 8:48 pm Post subject:

Never knew that only comm/kombi's used the wingnuts, to make it easier to pull out the seats I'm guessing?

Do they hold tight as well as a standard nut?
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busdaddy · Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 9:53 pm Post subject:

EverettB · Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:05 am Post subject:

On a '62, the middle seat plates are aluminum but they are heavier duty than those repro ones.

Quick Gallery photo

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deepseeman · Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:35 am Post subject:

what are these for? i just found them in a stash of parts I uncovered.

EverettB · Posted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:27 am Post subject:

They are Kombi seat mounts.

The tall C-clamp would be for a middle seat.
Both C-clamps have nubs so they are '67-up.
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