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double thrust cam bearing install question
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bay window dude
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 11:31 am    Post subject: double thrust cam bearing install question Reply with quote

this is my first time rebuilding an engine it is a 1800cc from 1974. I noticed there is no little tab on the thrust bearings (i got double thrust bearings). how do you install these so they don't go crazy and spin?

Last edited by bay window dude on Sat Aug 09, 2008 2:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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rcnotes
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Use the search function and do it in the Performance Engine/Racing forum.

Here's one hit using this search term "double AND thrust AND bearings". Please note that you have to CAPITALIZE the word AND between the words you use when searching for multiple words.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=286317&highlight=double+thrust+bearings

Here's the complete list from using those terms.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/search.php?search..._chars=200

Now, how hard was that?
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bay window dude
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i did search but all of the topics are about type 1 engines which have a tang and my problem is that there are no tangs because it is a type 4 engine!
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rcnotes
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check this link that I found in the search list I sent you.

It applies to Type 4 engines. The answer from The Man himself

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=64539&highlight=double+thrust+bearings
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rcnotes wrote:
Check this link that I found in the search list I sent you.

It applies to Type 4 engines. The answer from The Man himself

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=64539&highlight=double+thrust+bearings


That thread doesn't seem to answer his question.
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rcnotes
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This link explains that the case needs a modification.

http://www.aircooledtech.com/cam_clearances/
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bay window dude
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

THAT IS FOR A TYPE 1 ENGINE I ALREADY SAW THAT! TYPE 4 THRUST BEARINGS DO NOT HAVE ANY TAB!!!!
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Caleb Melvin
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

7 posts later and still no answer, sorry man, if I knew I would tell ya Rolling Eyes

Hang in there though, someone who is more knowledgeable will come along...
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GusC2it
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're worried about that bearing spinning, don't. It is a tight fit in the case wont spin. Also, using 2 thrust bearings is overkill unless you have a highly modified engine. If I was you I would be more concerned with the ware on the cam and lifters. Wink
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melville
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If your case won't hold the bearing in place, it's not because of the lack of tang. It may indicate a bigger problem. Some people who are obsessed about it will set the bearing shell in the case half and hammer a tang into it, but my T1 and T4 gurus, Berg and Raby respectively, both say it's unnecessary. I believe them, and have built my motors that way (tangless).
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busman78
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You do not need the tang, the double thrusts will not spin.
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NASkeet
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 6:28 am    Post subject: VW Type 4 engine, double-thrust camshaft bearings Reply with quote

bay window dude wrote:
i did search but all of the topics are about type 1 engines which have a tang and my problem is that there are no tangs because it is a type 4 engine!


busman78 wrote:
You do not need the tang, the double thrusts will not spin.


One needs to create a tang, on one of the thrust bearings, using a blunt cold-chisel, screwdriver or nail-punch. I favour the nail-punch.

It's possible that double-thrust camshaft bearings, which lack a locking tab, might not spin, owing to the combination of bearing-crush and friction, but I would not wish to risk the possibility of bearing spin, which would necessitate dismantling the engine and perhaps replacing a camshaft with an overheated bearing journal.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nigel, I have read several post by some that have tried to create the tang, final results were the bearing gets damaged. This weekend I tore down an engine that had double trusts cam bearing installed, although not a lot of miles on it and the thrust bearings were still intact, had not rotated nor was there any indication they had moved. Problem with engine was not the cam.

I also brought this question up on the Aircooled forums and the response was to install the double thrusts as is.

Just out of curiousity, how about putting a thin film of sealant in the saddle, any thoughts on that?
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GusC2it
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My posit on this is that the percentage of risk failure with double thrust compared to stock single thrust makes use of double thrust not a viable choice except when the use of double valve springs makes the rotational resistance of the cam sufficiently high that the Helical cut cam gear has to impart additional end loading on the cam to force it to turn. Most engines at this high performance level use straight cut gears any way which don't impart any end loading on the cam. Cool
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