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Jacksbug
Samba Member
Joined: July 26, 2020
Posts: 3
Location: TX
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 Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:23 pm Post subject: cost for removing a 65 beetle engine to repair main seal |
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| What should the expected cost be to have a mechanic remove my 65 beetle engine and repair a leaking main seal? |
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31379
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:02 pm Post subject: Re: cost for removing a 65 beetle engine to repair main seal |
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| Jacksbug wrote: |
| What should the expected cost be to have a mechanic remove my 65 beetle engine and repair a leaking main seal? |
OK, here's all what I had written down years ago, don't know the source:
engine R&R 1.5
crankshaft oil seal 1.0
So 2.5 flat rate hours. So at $100 per hour (depending on your area and shop) figure about $250.
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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61SNRF
Samba Member
Joined: March 29, 2009
Posts: 4657
Location: Whittier 90602
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| Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:23 pm Post subject: Re: cost for removing a 65 beetle engine to repair main seal |
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I would think Cusser's time estimate is a fair average but be aware most any reputable shop is going to want to diagnose your oil leak themselves and possibly give you a "preliminary estimate" of repairs. Yes that may include an engine R&R but the seal may or may not be the only fault.
Sure you can tell them you want the rear main seal replaced and some fly-by-nights might say they will but if your crank has too much end play, a groove worn in the flywheel, a crack in the case etc the seal alone may not fix your issue.
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An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. |
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gt1953
Samba Member
Joined: May 08, 2002
Posts: 13848
Location: White Mountains Arizona
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| Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:43 pm Post subject: Re: cost for removing a 65 beetle engine to repair main seal |
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What if it is the oil cooler seals?
I did have a flywheel with a groove in it once upon a time. Replacing the seal would not stop it from leaking.
Cusser is close on the estimate.
_________________
Volkswagen: We tune what we drive.
Numbers Matching VW's are getting harder to find. Source out the most Stock vehicle and keep that way. You will be glad you did.
72 type 1
72 Squareback
({59 Euro bug, 62, 63, 67, 68, 69, 73 type ones 68 & 69 type two, 68 Ghia all sold}) |
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31379
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:58 pm Post subject: Re: cost for removing a 65 beetle engine to repair main seal |
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When I replaced my own flywheel/crankshaft seal in my own 1971 in about 1981, I also threw in a new clutch disc. because mine was getting thin.
You should be proud that a shop would check this, rear transmission mounts, etc.
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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FL-Frank
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2015
Posts: 823
Location: Jupiter, Florida
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:44 am Post subject: Re: cost for removing a 65 beetle engine to repair main seal |
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I paid a shop to replace the leaking main seal, and it still leaked  I paid a second shop to replace it again, and it still leaked. 
I had never removed or replaced the engine myself, but after doing a lot of research here and elsewhere online I decided to tackle the job myself. In addition to replacing the main seal, I also replaced the oil cooler seals, the engine compartment seals, and the clutch, installed a thermostat, measured the crankshaft endplay, and degreased everything while the engine was out.
Going slowly, it took me about an hour to remove the engine. Again, going slowly, it took me about an hour to reinstall the engine and connect everything. I did have trouble getting the input shaft lined up and started, so I called an experienced friend who came over and talked me through tilting, jiggling, raising, lowering, and pushing to complete the reinstallation process.
The best part of the story is that I’ve logged nearly 5,000 miles since, with no oil leaks 
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“Tinker Toy” 1967 Savannah Beige Beetle Sedan...........Mostly Original Survivor
“Fritz” 1964 Gulf Blue Karmann Ghia Coupe...Complete Pan-Off Restoration SOLD |
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Helfen
Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2009
Posts: 3450
Location: Vulcania
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:33 am Post subject: Re: cost for removing a 65 beetle engine to repair main seal |
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| If I remember correctly at our VW dealership it cost the customer about 1 hr to install a reman engine, that included changing everything over to the new engine. So I would imagine a 1hr job for the competent mechanic to do a R&R engine and flywheel seal. Heck, on a 40hp it takes less than ten minutes to pull the engine! |
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Glenn 
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76938
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:39 am Post subject: Re: cost for removing a 65 beetle engine to repair main seal |
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| Cusser wrote: |
| Jacksbug wrote: |
| What should the expected cost be to have a mechanic remove my 65 beetle engine and repair a leaking main seal? |
OK, here's all what I had written down years ago, don't know the source:
engine R&R 1.5
crankshaft oil seal 1.0
So 2.5 flat rate hours. So at $100 per hour (depending on your area and shop) figure about $250. |
Very optimistic.
That's assuming they've done it hundreds of time.
That none of the hardware is rusted or broken.
That they don't bother to check endplay
That they don't inspect the clutch and replace
I'd give it 4 hours and hope they do it in less.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
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TDCTDI
Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013
Posts: 12856
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:45 am Post subject: Re: cost for removing a 65 beetle engine to repair main seal |
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| Glenn wrote: |
| Cusser wrote: |
| Jacksbug wrote: |
| What should the expected cost be to have a mechanic remove my 65 beetle engine and repair a leaking main seal? |
OK, here's all what I had written down years ago, don't know the source:
engine R&R 1.5
crankshaft oil seal 1.0
So 2.5 flat rate hours. So at $100 per hour (depending on your area and shop) figure about $250. |
Very optimistic.
That's assuming they've done it hundreds of time.
That none of the hardware is rusted or broken.
That they don't bother to check endplay
That they don't inspect the clutch and replace
I'd give it 4 hours and hope they do it in less. |
It’s not possible to replace the main seal without removing the clutch, labor shouldn’t be any more to toss a new clutch in.
Be aware though, damn near anytime one of these cars are worked on, it’s gonna be a rabbit hole that snowballs into lots more time & money. “While the engine’s out” is a great time to do....
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Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76938
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:09 am Post subject: Re: cost for removing a 65 beetle engine to repair main seal |
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| TDCTDI wrote: |
It’s not possible to replace the main seal without removing the clutch, labor shouldn’t be any more to toss a new clutch in. |
Correct, but you have to inspect the old one and possibly resurface the flywheel.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
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KTPhil
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 34013
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:42 am Post subject: Re: cost for removing a 65 beetle engine to repair main seal |
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Always good to consider other work while the engine is out. That's a sign of a conscientious mechanic.
The unscrupulous ones will stay quiet, and laugh as you drive off, thinking, "Sucker! He'll be back soon!" |
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Helfen
Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2009
Posts: 3450
Location: Vulcania
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:09 am Post subject: Re: cost for removing a 65 beetle engine to repair main seal |
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| Glenn wrote: |
| Cusser wrote: |
| Jacksbug wrote: |
| What should the expected cost be to have a mechanic remove my 65 beetle engine and repair a leaking main seal? |
OK, here's all what I had written down years ago, don't know the source:
engine R&R 1.5
crankshaft oil seal 1.0
So 2.5 flat rate hours. So at $100 per hour (depending on your area and shop) figure about $250. |
Very optimistic.
That's assuming they've done it hundreds of time.
That none of the hardware is rusted or broken.
That they don't bother to check endplay
That they don't inspect the clutch and replace
I'd give it 4 hours and hope they do it in less. |
If you took 4 hrs to do a flywheel seal at a VW dealer one of two things would happen.
1. You would have a paycheck so small you'd be ashamed to go home, or two, and most likely you wouldn't have a job. |
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heimlich
VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016
Posts: 6616
Location: Houston, Texas
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:51 am Post subject: Re: cost for removing a 65 beetle engine to repair main seal |
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| Jacksbug wrote: |
| What should the expected cost be to have a mechanic remove my 65 beetle engine and repair a leaking main seal? |
What part of Texas are you located?
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gt1953
Samba Member
Joined: May 08, 2002
Posts: 13848
Location: White Mountains Arizona
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:02 am Post subject: Re: cost for removing a 65 beetle engine to repair main seal |
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I have to agree if you are able to remove the engine and do the work yourself the outcome will be just like you like it.
Yes on the rabbit hole...as mentioned with engine out is the time to clean things up.
_________________
Volkswagen: We tune what we drive.
Numbers Matching VW's are getting harder to find. Source out the most Stock vehicle and keep that way. You will be glad you did.
72 type 1
72 Squareback
({59 Euro bug, 62, 63, 67, 68, 69, 73 type ones 68 & 69 type two, 68 Ghia all sold}) |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76938
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:22 am Post subject: Re: cost for removing a 65 beetle engine to repair main seal |
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| Helfen wrote: |
If you took 4 hrs to do a flywheel seal at a VW dealer one of two things would happen.
1. You would have a paycheck so small you'd be ashamed to go home, or two, and most likely you wouldn't have a job. |
How many VW dealers would do that job... NONE. In the past 15 years i've built 3 engines for the local dealership since they had no one who ever worked on a aircooled VW and didn't know where to get any parts for one.
And are you talking about a VW dealer in the 70s on a 6 year old car and not a 50 year old car?
What could make it take longer?
1) the barrel nuts holding the heater cables could be rusted and need to be fixed after.
2) the lower M10 studs could could br stripped or bent or both
3) it could of been converted to a dog house shroud and not captive nut put in on the upper left.. .so the bolt is missing.
4) Could have some of the wires such as coil, oil pressure, choke wires break.
5) The flywheel might need to be resurfaced
6) The throwout bearing could be broken
7) The TO cross shaft arms could be bent
 The engine to body seal could need to be replaced or is missing
9) Could be a performance engine with dual carbs and remote filter
Working on 50 year old cars, it ALWAYS takes longer than you think.
And all of this is assuming the person doing the job know what they're doing and has done it before.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
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Jacksbug
Samba Member
Joined: July 26, 2020
Posts: 3
Location: TX
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:25 pm Post subject: Re: cost for removing a 65 beetle engine to repair main seal |
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| I'm in Fort Worth. |
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Helfen
Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2009
Posts: 3450
Location: Vulcania
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:42 pm Post subject: Re: cost for removing a 65 beetle engine to repair main seal |
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| Glenn wrote: |
| Helfen wrote: |
If you took 4 hrs to do a flywheel seal at a VW dealer one of two things would happen.
1. You would have a paycheck so small you'd be ashamed to go home, or two, and most likely you wouldn't have a job. |
How many VW dealers would do that job... NONE. In the past 15 years i've built 3 engines for the local dealership since they had no one who ever worked on a aircooled VW and didn't know where to get any parts for one.
And are you talking about a VW dealer in the 70s on a 6 year old car and not a 50 year old car?
What could make it take longer?
1) the barrel nuts holding the heater cables could be rusted and need to be fixed after.
2) the lower M10 studs could could br stripped or bent or both
3) it could of been converted to a dog house shroud and not captive nut put in on the upper left.. .so the bolt is missing.
4) Could have some of the wires such as coil, oil pressure, choke wires break.
5) The flywheel might need to be resurfaced
6) The throwout bearing could be broken
7) The TO cross shaft arms could be bent
The engine to body seal could need to be replaced or is missing
9) Could be a performance engine with dual carbs and remote filter
Working on 50 year old cars, it ALWAYS takes longer than you think.
And all of this is assuming the person doing the job know what they're doing and has done it before. |
Of course we are talking about dealers in 60's 70's on a car with 80, 100K on them. The flat rate manual doesn't care if the car has 1K or 200 K.
What dealer today works on VW's???---You don't call those water cooled things VW's do you?
A person who worked in the dealership was trained by VW so you can assume he knows what he's about otherwise he wouldn't be there. |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76938
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:52 pm Post subject: Re: cost for removing a 65 beetle engine to repair main seal |
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| Helfen wrote: |
| Glenn wrote: |
| Helfen wrote: |
If you took 4 hrs to do a flywheel seal at a VW dealer one of two things would happen.
1. You would have a paycheck so small you'd be ashamed to go home, or two, and most likely you wouldn't have a job. |
How many VW dealers would do that job... NONE. In the past 15 years i've built 3 engines for the local dealership since they had no one who ever worked on a aircooled VW and didn't know where to get any parts for one.
And are you talking about a VW dealer in the 70s on a 6 year old car and not a 50 year old car?
What could make it take longer?
1) the barrel nuts holding the heater cables could be rusted and need to be fixed after.
2) the lower M10 studs could could br stripped or bent or both
3) it could of been converted to a dog house shroud and not captive nut put in on the upper left.. .so the bolt is missing.
4) Could have some of the wires such as coil, oil pressure, choke wires break.
5) The flywheel might need to be resurfaced
6) The throwout bearing could be broken
7) The TO cross shaft arms could be bent
The engine to body seal could need to be replaced or is missing
9) Could be a performance engine with dual carbs and remote filter
Working on 50 year old cars, it ALWAYS takes longer than you think.
And all of this is assuming the person doing the job know what they're doing and has done it before. |
Of course we are talking about dealers in 60's 70's on a car with 80, 100K on them. The flat rate manual doesn't care if the car has 1K or 200 K.
What dealer today works on VW's???---You don't call those water cooled things VW's do you?
A person who worked in the dealership was trained by VW so you can assume he knows what he's about otherwise he wouldn't be there. |
I've been working on VWs for 45 years and if there's nothing broken or rusted I can do it in 2 hours, if all you're doing is dropping the engine, removing the flywheel, replacing the seal and slamming it back together. But that's not how I work, I don't rush, I check of other stuff that needs to be done and inspect everything that can be.
If you bring it to a shop that doesn't work on ACVWs then it will take longer and hopefully it doesn't come back for a 2nd time.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
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TinCanFab
Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2006
Posts: 2743
Location: Waterford, California
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:57 pm Post subject: Re: cost for removing a 65 beetle engine to repair main seal |
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| Glenn wrote: |
| Helfen wrote: |
| Glenn wrote: |
| Helfen wrote: |
If you took 4 hrs to do a flywheel seal at a VW dealer one of two things would happen.
1. You would have a paycheck so small you'd be ashamed to go home, or two, and most likely you wouldn't have a job. |
How many VW dealers would do that job... NONE. In the past 15 years i've built 3 engines for the local dealership since they had no one who ever worked on a aircooled VW and didn't know where to get any parts for one.
And are you talking about a VW dealer in the 70s on a 6 year old car and not a 50 year old car?
What could make it take longer?
1) the barrel nuts holding the heater cables could be rusted and need to be fixed after.
2) the lower M10 studs could could br stripped or bent or both
3) it could of been converted to a dog house shroud and not captive nut put in on the upper left.. .so the bolt is missing.
4) Could have some of the wires such as coil, oil pressure, choke wires break.
5) The flywheel might need to be resurfaced
6) The throwout bearing could be broken
7) The TO cross shaft arms could be bent
The engine to body seal could need to be replaced or is missing
9) Could be a performance engine with dual carbs and remote filter
Working on 50 year old cars, it ALWAYS takes longer than you think.
And all of this is assuming the person doing the job know what they're doing and has done it before. |
Of course we are talking about dealers in 60's 70's on a car with 80, 100K on them. The flat rate manual doesn't care if the car has 1K or 200 K.
What dealer today works on VW's???---You don't call those water cooled things VW's do you?
A person who worked in the dealership was trained by VW so you can assume he knows what he's about otherwise he wouldn't be there. |
I've been working on VWs for 45 years and if there's nothing broken or rusted I can do it in 2 hours, if all you're doing is dropping the engine, removing the flywheel, replacing the seal and slamming it back together. But that's not how I work, I don't rush, I check of other stuff that needs to be done and inspect everything that can be.
If you bring it to a shop that doesn't work on ACVWs then it will take longer and hopefully it doesn't come back for a 2nd time. |
Before my buddy passed away, he used to do these type of jobs for people all the time. If he saw that the engine harness was even slighty crusty or hacked, he included replacing that as part of the engine pull. He would wait until the car was parked where it needed to be and the car owner was standing there. He would literally cut the nasty section off and just throw it on the ground and make some redneck comment to horrify them.  There was always several donor OG harnesses in stock to repair it, he just never told them first.
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Check out my truck brought back from the dead... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=420762&highlight=sprayed+blood
They're never really ever finished 58 rag build...
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=658092 |
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Jacksbug
Samba Member
Joined: July 26, 2020
Posts: 3
Location: TX
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| Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:24 pm Post subject: Re: cost for removing a 65 beetle engine to repair main seal |
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| Thanks to Cusser for the fine info and pricing. Just what I needed! |
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