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ggolds5 Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2022 Posts: 97 Location: Farmington, CT
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Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2024 12:40 pm Post subject: Old paint cracking! |
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I looked all over YouTube. Nothing shows exactly what our Bus has. From 10 feet away the paint is gorgeous. However, up close, especially in the drivers side rear quarter behind the rear wheel, there are cracks in the paint, to the point where you could pull them off and they would be like thick potato chips. It's all there and I DONT have the means to repaint the Bus now, so does anyone have a solution of a wax or compound or trick to keep the paint on the Bus to avoid that chipping away?. It doesn't appear to have bondo there but you never know. Looks like cracks in glass but you can feel it slightly raised. Any miracle wax's or filters that can be rubbed on and off?. Thanks. PS. 76 Chrome Yellow (orange). |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2024 6:00 pm Post subject: Re: Old paint cracking! |
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Sounds like a crappy previous repair, thin filler or thick primer debonding and peeling up. Sadly there's little you can do to slow it down, grinding it all off and starting over is the only sure fix. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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metahacker Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2010 Posts: 690 Location: san.diego
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Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2024 6:02 pm Post subject: Re: Old paint cracking! |
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A picture would really be helpful
But old original Glasurit paint is as tough as it gets, so may be a repair |
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Xevin Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2014 Posts: 7599
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Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2024 6:04 pm Post subject: Re: Old paint cracking! |
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My guess from the pictures, says it’s Bondo like filler. _________________ Keep on Busin'
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
Clatter wrote: |
Damn that Xevin... |
skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
I respect Xevin and he's a turd |
SGKent wrote: |
My God! Xevin and I 100% agree |
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skills@eurocarsplus Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007 Posts: 16803 Location: sticksville, ct.
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Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2024 6:32 pm Post subject: Re: Old paint cracking! |
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any wax or goo you use now...especially silicone based WILL fuck the next guy that has to paint it
there is nothing you can do other than repaint it _________________
gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
Jake Raby wrote: |
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
Brian wrote: |
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2024 7:25 pm Post subject: Re: Old paint cracking! |
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There were Indy 500 / FI racers based out of the shop that was next to us in So Cal back in the early 1980s. Someone used a silicone based wax on the Indy car to wax it (many waxes are silicone based). When it came time for them to repaint an area, the owner discovered massive fish eye. Like the paint beaded on the surface like water on a newly waxed car. Making matters worse it was Imron paint from the trucking industry back in the late 1970's, early 1980's. Stuff is diamond hard. Took them weeks of prep to get the old paint off and new primer to bond. I would be very careful what I put on that paint at this point. I only allow carnauba based waxes on my own cars because of what the silicone in wax can do to paints when it soaks in. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21474 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2024 8:06 am Post subject: Re: Old paint cracking! |
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Silicone...silicone spray....WD-40.....all miracle chemicals when used where they were designed to be used. Horrible creations when misused (as they frequently are).
Totally off-subject but this reminded me of it. When I was working solar cell production our QA manager who was previously from AMD (chip manufacturer) showed me a case study for a disaster they had in one of AMD's chip fabs (this is like an iso class 2 cleanroom) .....I had heard about this but thought it was urban legend.....where a maintenance guy (new and poorly trained) had come into the fab to repair a stuck automatic drain valve on a wafer etching bench/sink. Instead of replacing it.....he sprayed it with WD-40.....WHICH IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE ON THE PREMISES.
The silicone in the vapors contaminated the entire fab....all the wet benches....all the plumbing.....the HEPA filters....and all of the products in process. Millions of $ of damage. The glass lined Teflon sinks needed to be replaced. All of the polypropylene plumbing and pumps needed to be replaced.
In semiconductor work you have sections color coded that MUST be silicone and or silica free....and sections that must be copper free (and other metals in other areas)
Silicone is a dielectric. It kills certain electronics. WD-40 bad when used where it should not be. On paint and outer trim rubber like windshield gaskets = the wrong place for WD-40 or silicone sprays in general. Ray |
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Bulli Klinik Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2005 Posts: 2065 Location: Bulli Klinik, Colorado Springs
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Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2024 8:59 am Post subject: Re: Old paint cracking! |
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Standard WD-40 doesn't contain silicone, thought they do make a WD-40 with silicone. I spray it on bare metal panels all the time. _________________ I've never met a Bus I didn't like.
Mike K
Bulli Klinik
Colorado Springs |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21474 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2024 3:28 pm Post subject: Re: Old paint cracking! |
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Bulli Klinik wrote: |
Standard WD-40 doesn't contain silicone, thought they do make a WD-40 with silicone. I spray it on bare metal panels all the time. |
Yes I have read that in WD-40 literature/site nunerous times. However, I know for a fact that it actually USED to have silicone especially in the time frame that disaster happened that I noted in my last post (late 90s to early 00s).
Yes, I have heard and seen the answers from the company that it does not have silicone and never has....and it yet it has positively been tested by clients I have had years back to have at least a small amount of silicone in it.
Waste product or trace element?....also called nuisance levels....? Quite possibly so and not an ingredient they meant to actually put in it. Does not change the fact that at least in the past, silicone has been found in WD-40.
Do they have it in WD40 now? I would bet that NOW they do not have it in the normal WD-40. Over the last just at about 15-18 years....PDMS (polydimethylsiloxanes) have been given the hairy eye because while they are non-toxic and do not affect aquatic life.....they are not biodegrade. Large scale use of them has lead to bioaccumulation. The fact that they are used in everything from foods to paint as flow agents and cosmetics, fuels and detergents as anti-foaming agents.....a lot gets into the waste water and it increases the load on the water plants to react it to get it out.
So, to that point....way back when, small or trace amounts of anything that was generally non-hazards were not required to be listed in the MSDS sheets. Now, even if it's "possible" that it may be a bioaccumulative substance....it's still non-haz in any of the three main categories so the SDS also does not have to list it.
If WD-40 now tests clean for silicone NOW.....it's because they studiously/carefully removed it.
Many years ago, because of the non-oily but still water beading film it would leave....I could pretty much say there was at least SOME silicone in WD-40 or possibly a paraffin or both.
Whatever is in the basic stuff now....still sucks for paint. Ray |
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mikedjames Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2012 Posts: 2714 Location: Hamble, Hampshire, UK
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Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2024 10:33 am Post subject: Re: Old paint cracking! |
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Over here , we have a marine product - "Captain Tolley's Creeping Crack Cure" , which you can use to seal cracks in paintwork - it cures to a rubber-like consistency. It goes into the crack by capilliary action, then sets in contact with the air.
It does not seem to contain silicone, as you can paint over it without any difficulty.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Captain-Tolleys-Creeping-...amp;sr=8-2
I note it was offered on amazon.com but seems to be unavailable there.
I keep a bottle in the bus - so if I find a crack in the bondo or paintwork, I use it , to buy me time until it stops raining for a few days, so I can get out the sandpaper, and the bondo and the spray paint. _________________ Ancient vehicles and vessels
1974 VW T2 : Devon Eurovette camper with 1641 DP T1 engine, Progressive carb, full flow oil cooler, EDIS crank timed ignition.
Engine 1: 40k miles (rocker shaft clip fell off), Engine 2: 30k miles (rebuild, dropped valve). Engine 3: a JK Preservation Parts "new" engine, aluminium case: 26k miles: new top end.
Gearbox rebuild 2021 by Bears.
1979 Westerly GK24 24 foot racer/cruiser yacht Forethought of Gosport.
1973 wooden Pacer sailing dinghy |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21474 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2024 12:32 pm Post subject: Re: Old paint cracking! |
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mikedjames wrote: |
Over here , we have a marine product - "Captain Tolley's Creeping Crack Cure" , which you can use to seal cracks in paintwork - it cures to a rubber-like consistency. It goes into the crack by capilliary action, then sets in contact with the air.
It does not seem to contain silicone, as you can paint over it without any difficulty.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Captain-Tolleys-Creeping-...amp;sr=8-2
I note it was offered on amazon.com but seems to be unavailable there.
I keep a bottle in the bus - so if I find a crack in the bondo or paintwork, I use it , to buy me time until it stops raining for a few days, so I can get out the sandpaper, and the bondo and the spray paint. |
Very interesting!
Of course from its modern SDS, I can find nothing at all that tells me what it might be made of. The only three substances listed other than ethanol and methanol are three 'biocides" meant to deter mold growth.
On an update note....following up on my post earlier about silicone content in WD-40...where its claimed that it has never had any, that fact was bugging me because I KNOW that those in my industry who swear it had "some"...actually checked their chemistry. In the AMD case study I saw the data from...silicone was listed in the assay. And, silicone was what caused the damage in the area that was supposed to be silicone free.
So I called my buddy the (former) QA manager on that project both to say hello (first time since the start of covid) and maybe get some more of the skinny on it.
He noted that the actual amount of silicone they found were somewhat moderate TRACE quantities of silicone. Almost out of the parts per millions level into the parts per high in the hundreds of thousands of parts and that the semiconductor etching, plating and sputtering processes were sensitive to parts per million and in some cases parts per billion.
He noted that they got the same answers from the WD-40 company that we get..."it has never been an ingredient". All agreed that it was a nuisance element. A contaminant.
But what he stated was that everyone involved had a hunch from where the contaminating silicone came from in the manufacturing process of the WD-40. When he told me what they thought I just slapped my head because I SHOULD HAVE KNOWN. I already knew the production processes for spray cans and could have worked it out!
If you Google "how metal spray cans are made"....you can find many videos. The better ones show the whole process. A large part of that process is PRINTING (the industry I work in) of the metal sheets to have printed outsides with colors and product names. There is rarely a washdown process for the sheets after printing, before they go into the stamping and forming and filling processes.
Some of these printing processes are wet ink (offset litho) and some of these inks may or may not use silicone as a flow agent. Even more can bodies are printed with what is called DRY OFFSET...and....anywhere you want to have bare metal on the outside of the can....the first print layer down is a SILICONE primer resist Everywhere there is silicone, the ink does not transfer to the metal.
The other possible location for silicone to have gotten into the product is on the metal forming mandrels and dies for the can parts. In many cases a lubricant is used. Higher quality lubricants are usually dry powdered paraffin based. Cheaper lubricants...used by unknowing or cheap printers....may be dry powder SILICONE based.
So, got to say hello to and old friend and also got to get an idea where silicone could have gotten into a product that says they do not use silicone in their formula.
Do I know they have gotten rid of this issue? No I do not. Ray |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2024 4:20 pm Post subject: Re: Old paint cracking! |
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good sleuthing Ray. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21474 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2024 6:07 pm Post subject: Re: Old paint cracking! |
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SGKent wrote: |
good sleuthing Ray. |
Thanks!
This is some of the type of issue I actually do for a living in the Industrial/Electronics/Medical device printing industry. A client is having a chemical or more often....a rheological issue that stops the printing process or makes it lower quality or makes it impossible and its my job to figure out how to make it work or why its happening.
This one was bugging me because I KNOW the damage it caused in the semiconductor industry. With paint and cracks in bondo...I have no direct experience but have heard this before.
With the bondo or paint degradation I would suspect its mainly a solvent issue. I just don't know for sure. BUT...some of the solvents in WD-40 are KNOWN to cause "crazing" or cracking in cast acrylic that is not sealed. It can also do this in some types of polyester.
Bondo...at least classic Bondo...is mainly polyester. Ray |
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