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PatterBon
Samba Engine Connoisseur
Joined: September 27, 2008
Posts: 3222
Location: Seattle, Washington
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 Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 11:36 am Post subject: |
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| Vanhag wrote: | | Jesus is my co-pilot. |
I can't imagine flying alone yet  4 Months and I solo!
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PNW Dub Folk & Kitsap dub Folk (KdF)
1973 Standard VW Beetle
1969 Cessna 172K Airplane
| johnshenry wrote: | "Crusty"??
It would be easier to restore the Titanic. |
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Mike Fisher
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Joined: January 30, 2006
Posts: 12416
Location: Eugene, OR
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| Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 11:51 am Post subject: |
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A friend almost ran the Snider VW plane off the end of the runway wearing Cowboy Boots! 
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GeorgeL
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Joined: January 16, 2006
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| Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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| PatterBon wrote: | | Which brings me to another story....First couple of time that my instuctor was following through with me landing, he was watching the airspeed indicator, and we were coming in on final, and he tells me to bring the throttle back to 65, So i did and he starts looking around in confusion, and the it hit him that it was in MPH rather than knots, making for a very interesting landing, We managed to get it to the correct speed before we touched down, but it was a new experiance to say that least! |
That story is often written by someone from the NTSB who sums it up with "Pilot failed to maintain a controllable airspeed. Aircraft stalled and entered a spin during turn to final. There was insufficient altitude for recovery. Both instructor and student were killed upon impact."
Flying with an instructor is a team effort, and both instructor and student should know the correct airspeeds. A good instructor will often tell the student to do something wrong (at a safe altitude) to teach the student to rely on his own judgment and not to blindly follow others without thinking. The correct response is "Are you sure that you want me to do that? |
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Cheapo
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Joined: February 25, 2007
Posts: 291
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| Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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| GeorgeL wrote: | | PatterBon wrote: | | Which brings me to another story....First couple of time that my instuctor was following through with me landing, he was watching the airspeed indicator, and we were coming in on final, and he tells me to bring the throttle back to 65, So i did and he starts looking around in confusion, and the it hit him that it was in MPH rather than knots, making for a very interesting landing, We managed to get it to the correct speed before we touched down, but it was a new experiance to say that least! |
That story is often written by someone from the NTSB who sums it up with "Pilot failed to maintain a controllable airspeed. Aircraft stalled and entered a spin during turn to final. There was insufficient altitude for recovery. Both instructor and student were killed upon impact."
Flying with an instructor is a team effort, and both instructor and student should know the correct airspeeds. A good instructor will often tell the student to do something wrong (at a safe altitude) to teach the student to rely on his own judgment and not to blindly follow others without thinking. The correct response is "Are you sure that you want me to do that? |
The correct normal approach speed for a 172 (R and S models) is 60-70 knots (weight dependent). IIRC, Vso (stall speed, landing configuration) is ~33knots for the R model. Im certain the earlier model is about the same.
Lets do a little math:
65 knots = 75mph
65mph = 57knots
short field landing effort = 62kts = 71mph
stall speed (Vso) = 33 knots = 38mph
65mph - 38mph = 27mph (above a stall)
While this was an error, they were nowhere near a stall. Then again...you can stall an airplane at ANY speed...
Last edited by Cheapo on Wed Nov 26, 2008 3:21 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Cheapo
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Joined: February 25, 2007
Posts: 291
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| Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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| GeorgeL wrote: | | PatterBon wrote: | | Quote: | | BTW, unless you want to get laughed out of the FBO, it's not a "speedometer" it's an "airspeed indicator" Smile |
I know  , my instructor and I call it the speedo because it reads in MPH instead of knots lol. |
That's a Cessna thing that I just don't understand... The Pipers I usually flew read in red-blooded knots. |
Its not a Cessna or any other manufacturer specific thing. Its a date thing.
"Prior to 1969, airworthiness standards for civil aircraft in the USA Federal Aviation Regulations specified that distances were to be in statute miles, and speeds in miles per hour. In 1969 these standards were progressively amended to specify that distances were to be in nautical miles, and speeds in knots."
You just haven't flown anything that old yet... |
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Cheapo
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Joined: February 25, 2007
Posts: 291
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| Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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| PatterBon wrote: | | Vanhag wrote: | | Jesus is my co-pilot. |
I can't imagine flying alone yet 4 Months and I solo! |
I broke out the ol' logbook to check..i soloed with 21.3 hours...but i flew at least 3-4 times a week. That was thousands of hours ago. And i believe you're waiting on your 16th b-day for that as well.
The airplane always seems to make noises you never noticed before until you:
1. fly it solo
2. fly it at night
3. fly it over a large body of water, particularly at night, or solo.
Your first solo is an amazing feeling...there's probably nothing else like it. Bring a camera, wear an old shirt, and have fun! :reminisce: |
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PatterBon
Samba Engine Connoisseur
Joined: September 27, 2008
Posts: 3222
Location: Seattle, Washington
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| Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah I'll probably solo at around, 23-24 hours, and then have another year before the FAA practical test. So Ill be well over 40 Hours before I'm "Licensed" As for the Airspeed indicator and the MPH, him and I now have a chart with the conversion from MPH to knots on it, I'll try and take a picture of the 6 Pack when I go up on Friday.
It was also brought to my attention that I've yet to talk about ground school. The ground school that I go through, I do at home, It's broken up in to sections, such as "Getting to know you plane" and It will have 5-6 lessons per part. Then When I get to the flight office, my instructor and I review what I've gone over, I also take some lessons there as well. But for right now, since I'm still pretty far off, When we go up, its primarily doing basic things, like Turns around a Point, S-Turns, and Power on and Off Stalls. I also now have an hour, "Under the hood." And will continue to work on it. This last time that I went up, I go to do "Unusual attitude recovery." I had a blast with it, because that was the first story my grandpa told me about his instruction.
Sorry for the over exaggeration, I didnt mean at all to sound like I don't know whats going up there and I never meant me make it sound like my instructor was a bad instructor. So seriously sorry about that, I'll keep more accurate updates about whats been going on!
Continue to post your stories guys! I can't wait to go up again!
_________________
PNW Dub Folk & Kitsap dub Folk (KdF)
1973 Standard VW Beetle
1969 Cessna 172K Airplane
| johnshenry wrote: | "Crusty"??
It would be easier to restore the Titanic. |
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Cheapo
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Joined: February 25, 2007
Posts: 291
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| Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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Here's what our "six pack" looks like:
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PatterBon
Samba Engine Connoisseur
Joined: September 27, 2008
Posts: 3222
Location: Seattle, Washington
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| Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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Umm.....Most people get confused with the Cessna 6 pack....Im lost with this one!
I take that back, after further examination, I understand alot of them!
_________________
PNW Dub Folk & Kitsap dub Folk (KdF)
1973 Standard VW Beetle
1969 Cessna 172K Airplane
| johnshenry wrote: | "Crusty"??
It would be easier to restore the Titanic. |
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Cheapo
Samba Member
Joined: February 25, 2007
Posts: 291
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| Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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| PatterBon wrote: | Umm.....Most people get confused with the Cessna 6 pack....Im lost with this one!
I take that back, after further examination, I understand alot of them! |
Its exactly the same information you look at (well, ok, and a bit more) but mostly, its just presented differently--electronically--and in different places....but look closely and you'll see airspeed, attitude, altitude, turn coordinator, heading, and vsi. there are also trend instruments (like a vsi) for altitude and airspeed as well. Sorry for the blurry pic...i was just playing on a loooong leg (Scottsdale, AZ to White Plains, NY)! |
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PatterBon
Samba Engine Connoisseur
Joined: September 27, 2008
Posts: 3222
Location: Seattle, Washington
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| Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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Wow thats cool! Yeah I was looking at it and I recognize alot that's on there! My 6 pack is a little...dated to say the least 
_________________
PNW Dub Folk & Kitsap dub Folk (KdF)
1973 Standard VW Beetle
1969 Cessna 172K Airplane
| johnshenry wrote: | "Crusty"??
It would be easier to restore the Titanic. |
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PatterBon
Samba Engine Connoisseur
Joined: September 27, 2008
Posts: 3222
Location: Seattle, Washington
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| Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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Go up for my 12 hour tomorrow at noon!
_________________
PNW Dub Folk & Kitsap dub Folk (KdF)
1973 Standard VW Beetle
1969 Cessna 172K Airplane
| johnshenry wrote: | "Crusty"??
It would be easier to restore the Titanic. |
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GeorgeL
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2006
Posts: 6715
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| Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Cheapo wrote: | Here's what our "six pack" looks like:
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[crotchety old pilot voice]
"Those aren't instruments, son; that's a video game"
[/crotchety old pilot voice]
Nevertheless, I would love to fly on those... |
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GeorgeL
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Joined: January 16, 2006
Posts: 6715
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| Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Cheapo wrote: | | GeorgeL wrote: | | That's a Cessna thing that I just don't understand... The Pipers I usually flew read in red-blooded knots. |
Its not a Cessna or any other manufacturer specific thing. Its a date thing.
"Prior to 1969, airworthiness standards for civil aircraft in the USA Federal Aviation Regulations specified that distances were to be in statute miles, and speeds in miles per hour. In 1969 these standards were progressively amended to specify that distances were to be in nautical miles, and speeds in knots."
You just haven't flown anything that old yet... |
Actually, I learned to fly in the late '70s and the (then) relatively new ('76 or '77) Cessna trainers had MPH ASIs while all the Pipers had ASIs with knot markings. Perhaps I was in the middle of the "progressive amendments" you cited. Of course, most of the older trainers were Cessnas, so perhaps I received the wrong impression from my observations.
Oddly, I still cannot find anything in the FARs that mandate ASIs calibrated in knots for Part 23 (normal) operations. There is a specific mandate for Part 121 (air carriers). curious... |
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GeorgeL
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Joined: January 16, 2006
Posts: 6715
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| Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Cheapo wrote: | The correct normal approach speed for a 172 (R and S models) is 60-70 knots (weight dependent). IIRC, Vso (stall speed, landing configuration) is ~33knots for the R model. Im certain the earlier model is about the same.
Lets do a little math:
65 knots = 75mph
65mph = 57knots
short field landing effort = 62kts = 71mph
stall speed (Vso) = 33 knots = 38mph
65mph - 38mph = 27mph (above a stall)
While this was an error, they were nowhere near a stall. Then again...you can stall an airplane at ANY speed... |
That is what I mean. While it is possible to fly safely even if the knot values are misread on a MPH instrument it reduces the stall margin. Introduce another factor (turbulence, a steeper-than normal turn to final, etc.) and you might end up with a classic situation of running out of altitude, airspeed, and ideas simultaneously. |
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Cheapo
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Joined: February 25, 2007
Posts: 291
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| Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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| GeorgeL wrote: | | Cheapo wrote: | Here's what our "six pack" looks like:
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[crotchety old pilot voice]
"Those aren't instruments, son; that's a video game"
[/crotchety old pilot voice]
Nevertheless, I would love to fly on those... |
I learned in the late 90s in my teens on the "round dials" (analog) panel, and the transition to glass (several years ago, in the C172SP G-1000) was very easy. I find the reverse is not true, people trying to go from glass to analog, never having seen it before, seem to have much more difficulty with the transition. While I would say I have equal competence in both, I prefer the glass...so long as everything is working!!  |
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carterzest
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Joined: January 22, 2008
Posts: 3193
Location: PDX/RipCity/StumpTown
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| Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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Dog is my co-pilot.
Have hundreds of hours in a 150, 172 then finally a cessna 310 turbo..Both my father and mother are private pilots but gave it up for commercials due to the cost of annuals and IRS restrictions on writing off certain expenses.always wanted to go for the pilots license but have never got around to it!
Have taken the stick so many times it is not even funny...and, one of the most peaceful feelings you can experience in life. Also did a tandem hangglider and an ultralight cruise through the Columbia River Gorge in OR.....that is even closer to god!
Kudos to you for doing it at such a ripe young age 
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Cheapo
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Joined: February 25, 2007
Posts: 291
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| Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| carterzest wrote: | Dog is my co-pilot.
Have hundreds of hours in a 150, 172 then finally a cessna 310 turbo..Both my father and mother are private pilots but gave it up for commercials due to the cost of annuals and IRS restrictions on writing off certain expenses.always wanted to go for the pilots license but have never got around to it!
Have taken the stick so many times it is not even funny...and, one of the most peaceful feelings you can experience in life. Also did a tandem hangglider and an ultralight cruise through the Columbia River Gorge in OR.....that is even closer to god!
Kudos to you for doing it at such a ripe young age |
Patterbon is definitely fortunate to have an aviation influence in his life. I didnt have one, and found it myself, accidentally, actually, when I was 18. Who'd have thought?
When I was an instructor/FAA designated examiner at a major aviation institution, I had a CFI/CFII student who was 18. He had his MEI by 19, and until a few months ago, he had more Hawker time than I did! He's still not old enough to have a drink in a bar. Strange world we live in. |
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PatterBon
Samba Engine Connoisseur
Joined: September 27, 2008
Posts: 3222
Location: Seattle, Washington
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| Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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Hey all! Got my 12 hour today, but an interesting day indeed. My flight instructors schedule was never updated, so he didnt know that he had a flight today because the people in the office didnt put in the system by accident...So he went out of his way to come to work today and we flew...I felt horrible ruining his day, but we went up anyways and all we did were steep turns, and slow flight maneuvering. Along with 5 ladings....1 of which i ballooned on  ...but they were all cross wind landings..So I thought that I did bad today because of the multiple landings, but my grandpa told me on the way home, "If you were of age, this is him showing you that you are beyond the basics and that you would be soloing in the near future, if he can spend most of the time doing those landings, then you'd be close if you were old enough."
So CFI's does it sound that way?
_________________
PNW Dub Folk & Kitsap dub Folk (KdF)
1973 Standard VW Beetle
1969 Cessna 172K Airplane
| johnshenry wrote: | "Crusty"??
It would be easier to restore the Titanic. |
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GeorgeL
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Joined: January 16, 2006
Posts: 6715
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| Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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So, does your CFI teach the "sideslip to flare" crosswind technique or the "crab and kick it straight on flare" technique?
Mine showed me both ways but since I really didn't like crossing the controls close to the ground I usually used the crab-and-kick technique. |
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