So, does your CFI teach the "sideslip to flare" crosswind technique or the "crab and kick it straight on flare" technique?
Mine showed me both ways but since I really didn't like crossing the controls close to the ground I usually used the crab-and-kick technique.
Both ways can be correct, however, as an instructor and former FAA designated examiner, I would teach primary students to keep the fuselage lined up with the centerline at all times. Why? One less thing to worry about in the flare for someone who is just learning. I've seen students kick the WRONG rudder in the flare, because they were concentrating so hard on other things. Removing tasks from the most critical times of flight reduces error potential.
Once a student mastered that technique, I would show them the other way--as well as more advanced (instrument, multi, etc.) students.
In the jet...we keep the yaw damper on till about 100 feet AGL, then kick it off and hold the crab until the flare, then line it up and touch it down, wing low. One thing to remember...as your airplane gets bigger...your distance in the cockpit from the CG increases, and therefore, you will swing further when straightening out the airplane...if you dont compensate, you'll touch down on the downwind side of the centerline...but for a single engine piston airplane, that isnt a concern.
Joined: September 27, 2008 Posts: 3222 Location: Seattle, Washington
Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 2:25 pm Post subject:
Quote:
So, does your CFI teach the "sideslip to flare" crosswind technique or the "crab and kick it straight on flare" technique?
Mine showed me both ways but since I really didn't like crossing the controls close to the ground I usually used the crab-and-kick technique.
My CFI showed me the "crab and the kick it straight on flare."
I was awfully embarrassed when I ballooned it ... But after that, he had me just follow through with him while he did it to let me know how it looked and how it felt, and then the last 3 were all mine and I did fine.
Quote:
. I've seen students kick the WRONG rudder in the flare, because they were concentrating so hard on other things.
Hahaha wow that must have rattled your nerves! I haven't done that, and don't plan to lol.
On an off note, my grandpa and I were counting off the "irony's" we had that day. On the Ferry ride over, I was reading about ballooning and Flaring to high, and what did I do on final? I flared to high and balloon. We were also talking about how we didn't like how non-fliers tried to talk like they know whats going on and what to do, and after my flight, I headed up to the flight office, and there was this guy trying to make small talk with my grandpa, Well he looks up at me and says, "How was it?" I respond, "Umm, the crosswind made landings a little difficult." He responds, "There isn't any crosswind right." I wanted to tell him to go up and try and land the crosswind, but kept my head and just nodded and went back out to the plane to taxi it back to the hangar. And the third and final Ironic thing that happened was, my grandpa and I were discussing how people get Microsoft Flight Simulator and think that they can fly a plane, So after the flight, me and my CFI went into his office to go over the day, and I asked him if I he was going up with me for my check ride, and he points to an elderly fellow and says, "Nope, you'll be going up with Arnold for your check ride." And he was playing Flight Simulator X. So, ironic huh? _________________ PNW Dub Folk & Kitsap dub Folk (KdF)
1973 Standard VW Beetle
1969 Cessna 172K Airplane
johnshenry wrote:
"Crusty"??
It would be easier to restore the Titanic.
Joined: August 12, 2007 Posts: 2047 Location: Acton, Ontario, Canada
Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 2:29 pm Post subject:
The coolest thing I ever did was fly backwards in a 152 or even sit stationary for a minute or two at 4000'. You need a greater head wind then your stall in a slow flight configuration and bingo. I was able to preform it a couple of times. I always wanted to see it from the ground.
Man have you seen the youtube of the stunt pilot who lost his wing and landed it. Looks like he put it on the runway. He had an advantage with the massive power plant in those things and was able to use the fuselage as an airfoil. He snap rolled it at about 10' off the ground to put it on the wheels and bang. Landed it. _________________ Brett
"I do not see things as black and white, but everything as very colourful!"
'75 Kombi/Westy (2.0L CV, H-Lifters, '75-'79FI mix, XR700, 003 Auto) project.
03 Jetta TDI, 04 Honda civic, 71 super beetle
Licensed pilot (single engine land VFR)
--
Rust In Peace: 72 Bug, 73 Bug, 81 Rabbit LS D 2D, 83 Rabbit D 2D, 84 Jetta TD GL, 85 Jetta D, 68 Z28 RS 302, 91 Passat 16v
Joined: September 27, 2008 Posts: 3222 Location: Seattle, Washington
Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 2:35 pm Post subject:
1975 Kombi wrote:
The coolest thing I ever did was fly backwards in a 152 or even sit stationary for a minute or two at 4000'. You need a greater head wind then your stall in a slow flight configuration and bingo. I was able to preform it a couple of times. I always wanted to see it from the ground.
Man have you seen the youtube of the stunt pilot who lost his wing and landed it. Looks like he put it on the runway. He had an advantage with the massive power plant in those things and was able to use the fuselage as an airfoil. He snap rolled it at about 10' off the ground to put it on the wheels and bang. Landed it.
It sure feels like you're going backwards in slow flight..... , as for the video, I was it and was blown away! I have 4 pilots in the family (not including me) and 3/4 think its a fake. I just dont think that they want to believe it, I think that that is a perfect example of keeping your head, had he not, then he wouldnt be here. _________________ PNW Dub Folk & Kitsap dub Folk (KdF)
1973 Standard VW Beetle
1969 Cessna 172K Airplane
johnshenry wrote:
"Crusty"??
It would be easier to restore the Titanic.
Joined: August 12, 2007 Posts: 2047 Location: Acton, Ontario, Canada
Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 3:25 pm Post subject:
PatterBon wrote:
1975 Kombi wrote:
The coolest thing I ever did was fly backwards in a 152 or even sit stationary for a minute or two at 4000'. You need a greater head wind then your stall in a slow flight configuration and bingo. I was able to preform it a couple of times. I always wanted to see it from the ground.
Man have you seen the youtube of the stunt pilot who lost his wing and landed it. Looks like he put it on the runway. He had an advantage with the massive power plant in those things and was able to use the fuselage as an airfoil. He snap rolled it at about 10' off the ground to put it on the wheels and bang. Landed it.
It sure feels like you're going backwards in slow flight..... , as for the video, I was it and was blown away! I have 4 pilots in the family (not including me) and 3/4 think its a fake. I just dont think that they want to believe it, I think that that is a perfect example of keeping your head, had he not, then he wouldnt be here.
I say it is real. These stunt guy know how to fly in any configuration. I took him a couple of seconds to find out how to fly it. They fly inverted half the time. _________________ Brett
"I do not see things as black and white, but everything as very colourful!"
'75 Kombi/Westy (2.0L CV, H-Lifters, '75-'79FI mix, XR700, 003 Auto) project.
03 Jetta TDI, 04 Honda civic, 71 super beetle
Licensed pilot (single engine land VFR)
--
Rust In Peace: 72 Bug, 73 Bug, 81 Rabbit LS D 2D, 83 Rabbit D 2D, 84 Jetta TD GL, 85 Jetta D, 68 Z28 RS 302, 91 Passat 16v
Joined: August 12, 2007 Posts: 2047 Location: Acton, Ontario, Canada
Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 3:34 pm Post subject:
One time I was up and returning to the club and I joined straight in on the down wind leg and called it out on the radio. Two seconds later someone behind me called the same thing. I called turning left base and one second later the pilot behind me called the same thing. I called turning final just before the pilot behind me. You get the picture. My instructor was with me and he tells me not to move. Just then a set of wheels appear right at the top of my windshield. Man I could read the letters on the side walls. We cut power and chose a path parallel to the runway and pulled up to go around. _________________ Brett
"I do not see things as black and white, but everything as very colourful!"
'75 Kombi/Westy (2.0L CV, H-Lifters, '75-'79FI mix, XR700, 003 Auto) project.
03 Jetta TDI, 04 Honda civic, 71 super beetle
Licensed pilot (single engine land VFR)
--
Rust In Peace: 72 Bug, 73 Bug, 81 Rabbit LS D 2D, 83 Rabbit D 2D, 84 Jetta TD GL, 85 Jetta D, 68 Z28 RS 302, 91 Passat 16v
oooOOOoooo...the 206L, longranger, I believe? I have some heli time myself....learned to fly them in 2000, but only had enough money at the time to finish my helicopter private or ASEL CFI...I had to choose the one that could get me a job. I do love helicopters though...
Last edited by Cheapo on Sat Nov 29, 2008 3:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
Joined: August 12, 2007 Posts: 2047 Location: Acton, Ontario, Canada
Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 3:42 pm Post subject:
Another story is landing at London Ontario. They have a huge airport and the runways are just the same. Coming in I contacted the tower and told him how far back I was and he laughed at me. I had only flown at my little airport so the runways and distances are deceiving when you first see a larger runway. So he tells me to take another look. Anyway I am coming in and the tower tells me to keep the circuit tight. I told him ok. He calls me back and said I though I told you to keep it tight. I said it looked tight. He then tells me to turn for the end of the runway and land and take the first exit to a taxiway. I land and off I go and in comes this heavy. Scared the crap out of me. But now I know why he was getting anxious. Great fun!! _________________ Brett
"I do not see things as black and white, but everything as very colourful!"
'75 Kombi/Westy (2.0L CV, H-Lifters, '75-'79FI mix, XR700, 003 Auto) project.
03 Jetta TDI, 04 Honda civic, 71 super beetle
Licensed pilot (single engine land VFR)
--
Rust In Peace: 72 Bug, 73 Bug, 81 Rabbit LS D 2D, 83 Rabbit D 2D, 84 Jetta TD GL, 85 Jetta D, 68 Z28 RS 302, 91 Passat 16v
So, does your CFI teach the "sideslip to flare" crosswind technique or the "crab and kick it straight on flare" technique?
Mine showed me both ways but since I really didn't like crossing the controls close to the ground I usually used the crab-and-kick technique.
My CFI showed me the "crab and the kick it straight on flare."
I was awfully embarrassed when I ballooned it ... But after that, he had me just follow through with him while he did it to let me know how it looked and how it felt, and then the last 3 were all mine and I did fine.
Quote:
. I've seen students kick the WRONG rudder in the flare, because they were concentrating so hard on other things.
Hahaha wow that must have rattled your nerves! I haven't done that, and don't plan to lol.
You would not believe the things people do on their checkrides. A lot of it can be attributed to nervousness, the part that requires experience is determining whether or not it was due to training or some other deficiency.
When checkrides were going well, particularly the CFI and CFII rides (when I got to play 'dumb student') they were a great deal of fun...however when someone was having a bad day...it was an awful experience. Still it was a great part of my career that I feel fortunate to have experiences, especially since i was still in my mid 20s. Its taught me a lot about people, aviation, and the way the mind works. I enjoyed it...
Another story is landing at London Ontario. They have a huge airport and the runways are just the same.
I had a similar experience at Yuma's dual use airport. The military parallel runways seemed to go off over the horizon, but for the life of me I couldn't find the little civil runway. Finally, the controller says "Look for the taxiway on the north side of the airport with "YUMA" painted in the middle of it!" Sure enough, there it was and it was a full-sized runway. The monster military runways dwarfed the normal runway.
Trying to buy avgas at Yuma during the '70s fuel crisis is another story...
Joined: September 27, 2008 Posts: 3222 Location: Seattle, Washington
Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 5:49 pm Post subject:
Quote:
The monster military runways dwarfed the normal runway.
I know what you mean! Arlington Field here in Washington is an ex-military airfield, and taxiing off of it once i landed seemed to take forever.
Any one have their float plane license? This summer, I plan to get mine in the deHavilland Beaver, a super cool plane i might add, but thats how my great grandfather learned, and I'll be the first one in the family to get their float plane rating since 1926.
Another thing I forgot to mention is, we had carburetor ice, we found it during pre-flight run-up. I've heard some pretty scary stories about it. I'm guessing you all have a story or two?
(I've heard that heli pilots are a little...strange... ...my instructor is one and so is my uncle, and i must say they can be strange at times _________________ PNW Dub Folk & Kitsap dub Folk (KdF)
1973 Standard VW Beetle
1969 Cessna 172K Airplane
johnshenry wrote:
"Crusty"??
It would be easier to restore the Titanic.
Another thing I forgot to mention is, we had carburetor ice, we found it during pre-flight run-up. I've heard some pretty scary stories about it. I'm guessing you all have a story or two?
Never had it in a plane (mostly desert flying) but I've had it in motorcycles and VWs. It normally happens when temps are comfortably _above_ freezing and when humidity is high.
The monster military runways dwarfed the normal runway.
I know what you mean! Arlington Field here in Washington is an ex-military airfield, and taxiing off of it once i landed seemed to take forever.
Any one have their float plane license? This summer, I plan to get mine in the deHavilland Beaver, a super cool plane i might add, but thats how my great grandfather learned, and I'll be the first one in the family to get their float plane rating since 1926.
Another thing I forgot to mention is, we had carburetor ice, we found it during pre-flight run-up. I've heard some pretty scary stories about it. I'm guessing you all have a story or two?
(I've heard that heli pilots are a little...strange... ...my instructor is one and so is my uncle, and i must say they can be strange at times
After flying with turbines for so long, i totally forgot about carburetor icing! We just worry about the engine nacelles and the leading edges of the wings and tail. 95% of my training was in fuel injected airplanes, so it wasnt a concern...but I did get it once in an old 172 a friend had. Always check the carb heat during the runup, and be very aware of the symptoms of carb icing. It can bite you!
Joined: September 27, 2008 Posts: 3222 Location: Seattle, Washington
Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 10:48 pm Post subject:
My uncle (not the heli pilot) was telling me that he was on his way back to Harvey from Arlington, when his RPM's kept going down, and he'd push in the throttle, and they kept going down, enough so to the point where he thinks that he wont make it. So he's thinking frantically, and then pulled out the carb heat, and the plane sputtered and puked, and then everything was normal.
Thankfully, I caught mine on the ground rather than up in the air. _________________ PNW Dub Folk & Kitsap dub Folk (KdF)
1973 Standard VW Beetle
1969 Cessna 172K Airplane
johnshenry wrote:
"Crusty"??
It would be easier to restore the Titanic.
Joined: August 20, 2005 Posts: 233 Location: Mesa, Arizona, USA
Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:43 pm Post subject:
1975 Kombi wrote:
Man have you seen the youtube of the stunt pilot who lost his wing and landed it. Looks like he put it on the runway. He had an advantage with the massive power plant in those things and was able to use the fuselage as an airfoil. He snap rolled it at about 10' off the ground to put it on the wheels and bang. Landed it.
I've seen that video, and while I do believe an airplane of that caliber (power/weight ratio) has the power and control authority to fly knife-edge while missing a wing, a couple things in that video cause me to have to run up the bullsh!t flag. 1) no falling parts or protruding/flapping cables or push-pull tubes from the fuselage when the wing 'breaks' off. 2) The roll to upright and the whole landing/rollout sequence just look fakey as heck.
I'm no expert or authority, but have been an aviator for about 20 years, and that's my opinion. _________________ '59 Baja
Joined: September 27, 2008 Posts: 3222 Location: Seattle, Washington
Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:46 pm Post subject:
az350x wrote:
1975 Kombi wrote:
Man have you seen the youtube of the stunt pilot who lost his wing and landed it. Looks like he put it on the runway. He had an advantage with the massive power plant in those things and was able to use the fuselage as an airfoil. He snap rolled it at about 10' off the ground to put it on the wheels and bang. Landed it.
I've seen that video, and while I do believe an airplane of that caliber (power/weight ratio) has the power and control authority to fly knife-edge while missing a wing, a couple things in that video cause me to have to run up the bullsh!t flag. 1) no falling parts or protruding/flapping cables or push-pull tubes from the fuselage when the wing 'breaks' off. 2) The roll to upright and the whole landing/rollout sequence just look fakey as heck.
I'm no expert or authority, but have been an aviator for about 20 years, and that's my opinion.
Wow, that's a good point, I did think that the landing looked fake, my grandpa kept pointing out the aileron on the wing moving abruptly at the end to make the landing...I didn't even think to look at the cables though. _________________ PNW Dub Folk & Kitsap dub Folk (KdF)
1973 Standard VW Beetle
1969 Cessna 172K Airplane
johnshenry wrote:
"Crusty"??
It would be easier to restore the Titanic.
Joined: August 15, 2002 Posts: 1246 Location: Wellington, FL
Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 3:01 pm Post subject:
wow this thread is awesome (thanks Jim for pointing me to it). I can still remember all the excitement that you are going thru that you get when you first start flying, it was a while ago for me, but every take off is a whole new excitement ! I started flying a while back when I used to live in Tahiti, I was only 13 and since you can't legally work till you are 18 and my parents had (still do) no money, I washed planes after school to earn flight time at my local FBO. Flying is awesome, it's not the best career to be in right now, but if you love flying, it's still the best
wow this thread is awesome (thanks Jim for pointing me to it). I can still remember all the excitement that you are going thru that you get when you first start flying, it was a while ago for me, but every take off is a whole new excitement ! I started flying a while back when I used to live in Tahiti, I was only 13 and since you can't legally work till you are 18 and my parents had (still do) no money, I washed planes after school to earn flight time at my local FBO. Flying is awesome, it's not the best career to be in right now, but if you love flying, it's still the best
All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time Goto page Previous1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 27, 28, 29Next
Page 5 of 29
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
... But after that, he had me just follow through with him while he did it to let me know how it looked and how it felt, and then the last 3 were all mine and I did fine.
, as for the video, I was it and was blown away! I have 4 pilots in the family (not including me) and 3/4 think its a fake. I just dont think that they want to believe it, I think that that is a perfect example of keeping your head, had he not, then he wouldnt be here.
...my instructor is one and so is my uncle, and i must say they can be strange at times 
